722. The Truth About Joining Sessions as a Newbie

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35:15

In this recap episode, Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell dig into their favorite takeaways from the conversation with Tara Connaghan, a traditional Irish fiddle player from Donegal whose award-winning podcast decodes the unspoken rules of Irish music sessions. They unpack why unfamiliar spaces feel so intimidating to newcomers, the etiquette of joining as a beginner, the three kinds of people every new learner needs.


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In this episode you will learn about:

  • The importance of supporting local Black-owned businesses.
  • The etiquette of easing into a group as a beginner.
  • Brad's jazz sessions and what his class taught him about listening.
  • Why daily practice outperforms one long session each week.
  • How filling your cup makes everything else feel easier.


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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

When you are a beginner, there is an anxiety about how do I join? What's the etiquette? Do I have enough skills to be here? Am I allowed to sit here? Can I sit there? And she explained that you're scared because you just don't know how to enter the space. And I think it's really important to acknowledge that when we're a beginner at things, we're allowed to have some fear, you know?


Lesley Logan 0:15  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. 


Lesley Logan 0:58  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap, where my co-host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the warm convo I have with Tara Connaghan in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to the interview, you can pause this, go listen to that, and then come back to this. You can listen to this, then go back to that. She has an Irish accent.


Brad Crowell 1:12  

Yes, she does.


Lesley Logan 1:13  

So sometimes that's fun to listen to.


Brad Crowell 1:15  

It sure was. She's also a musician. Love that.


Lesley Logan 1:18  

Yes, yes. And she has a great podcast as well. It's winning awards, even though it's brand new, because it's so niche. It's a niche in a niche. It's kind of amazing, but we'll get into that in a minute. First, today is August 20, 2026, and it's World Mosquito Day because, you know what? Those little fuckers need their own day. Honestly, because you need to be reminded that they suck. But you need to know how bad it is because it's...


Brad Crowell 1:39  

Literally.


Lesley Logan 1:40  

Oh, that's so funny! Pun wasn't intended, but I slayed that. So World Mosquito Day unites global health efforts every August 20th commemorating Sir Ronald Ross's 1897 discovery that mosquitoes transmit malaria. Well, thanks, Sir Ronald Ross. Do you think his parents named him Sir Ronald Ross, or he was Ronald Ross, and then they got the "Sir"?


Brad Crowell 2:01  

He got the "Sir."


Lesley Logan 2:01  

Oh, okay.


Brad Crowell 2:02  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 2:02  

Well, this crucial day raises awareness about the ongoing threat of mosquito-borne illnesses like dengue, dengue?


Brad Crowell 2:09  

Dengue


Lesley Logan 2:09  

Dengue, Zika. 


Brad Crowell 2:11  

Yeah, it would be normally known as dengue fever.


Lesley Logan 2:13  

Yeah, dengue fever, Zika, and yeah. 


Brad Crowell 2:16  

Good luck on that one.


Lesley Logan 2:20  

Chikungunya. I'm reminding.


Brad Crowell 2:25  

It could be Chikungunya. Chikungunya.


Lesley Logan 2:28  

I'm not sure. Yeah. Anyways, well, my speech therapy didn't help me with that one. Discover how you can protect yourself, support research, and contribute to eradication initiatives worldwide. You know what you can do? Keep your fucking still water from being still. You guys, stir your pools. Don't let, you know, I listened to an episode of The Daily years ago when it was good, and it talked about how there are these mosquitoes that can live in a capful, you know those plastic water bottles? That size capful of water in a tire across continents. So on a ship that takes months, and then they can just spread. They don't need a lot of water anymore. So you guys have got to move your water around. Do you remember when we lived in LA and there was a big deal about the virus, and we were like at the airport. Everybody was on guard for puddles and drying things up. It was a weird community. It was before COVID, but LA had a community because people were getting... I don't think it was Zika, but there was a virus being carried by the mosquitoes, and it was a reason why even the airport had to clean up their water. They were giving out fines.


Brad Crowell 3:31  

I can't remember what it was, because Zika is usually in Asia, but it obviously can spread.


Lesley Logan 3:37  

So obviously, I talk about standing water around your home, but applying an EPA-registered repellent and raising awareness about mosquito-borne diseases is a great way to support the public health initiatives. Isn't it funny if we just start going around. Everybody today, I want you to go around and go, "It's World Mosquito Day. Do you have any standing water? Do you know how to get rid of mosquitoes?" So Vegas was notoriously known for having no mosquitoes, and now we have lots of mosquitoes. We have a whole mosquito problem, and at UNLV, there's a woman who studies the whole thing. But now we have mosquitoes, and it's really annoying because I thought I only got bit by mosquitoes when I was in Cambodia. Now we get bit all the time.


Brad Crowell 4:10  

It's not even, I mean, honestly, LA was, I felt like I got more mosquitoes in LA than Cambodia, but it depends on the time of year in Cambodia. I think it depends on the season, of course. But there definitely are mosquitoes there. We had a lot more in Thailand than Cambodia.


Lesley Logan 4:26  

Thailand killed me. Cambodia, I've learned to figure it out. And when you come to our retreat in Cambodia, we tell you what to do so you don't get bit. All right, you guys, what do we got going on? We're on our way back from the tour, actually. So we're probably either in El Paso or on our way to Tucson right now. We're gonna wrap it up in a few days in Las Vegas. And something you need to know, I'm really, really proud of. I started a teacher-training program for new teachers. So if you heard the rumor, it is true, and it's called upLift, and it will start early next year at a studio, hopefully near you. So, in fact, in the next couple weeks, I'll be taking applications from the people who want to license and teach the program, and then this fall, I'll be training them how to do it. Then I'll be working alongside them to make sure that it is done the way I know it will work and change your life and change the lives of the people that you teach. So you should go to xxll.co/uws if you would like to be a student. This is for first-time teachers or partially trained teachers, or maybe people who want to bridge into classical and they want it to be more of an in-person experience. So xxll.co/uws. And then for those who are already comprehensively trained and you want more of a master's program, you can go watch the recent eLevate Live Q&A call I did at lesleylogan.co/elevate. That's L-E-S-L-E-Ylogan.co/elevate. I did a mini class. I answered a ton of questions. We have a bunch of grads on there. We are filling 2028 as we speak, and only people who graduate eLevate can actually teach upLift. So if you are like, "Oh my God, how do I get my application in?" You won't even find out until you have done eLevate. So there you go. All right, you guys, we got a lot going on. Balanced Body sponsored our tour, so we're so excited because we have to take Contrology equipment everywhere, and we're spending a lot of time with them the rest of this year. I'll tell you more about that in a second. But thank you to Balanced Body for sponsoring our summer tour, and they are also sponsoring our winter tour this year, which we will announce next month. So make sure that you're on our email list so you don't miss out because literally on the summer tour, several cities sold out in one day. 


Brad Crowell 6:27  

In one day. 


Lesley Logan 6:28  

In one day.


Brad Crowell 6:29  

Yeah. So how do you get on the waitlist? Go to OPC.me/events.


Lesley Logan 6:33  

There you go. Go do that. Okay. So if you're new here, one of the ways you can actually support us is by being an OPC member. But if that's more of a commitment than you want to make, when you buy our amazing flashcards at opc.me/flashcards, not only do you support us and this podcast, but you're also supporting the Nevada SPCA. Just so you know.


Brad Crowell 6:49  

Yeah, but I just wanted to say before we move on, becoming a member, you can start with a trial. So it's a 40-day trial for 40 bucks, and you pick the trial based on the equipment you have access to, and then you get to come hang in this awesome community we have. We just revamped our community page, the whole community platform. It's really cool and just awesome people. So not only that, you can do it anywhere you are.


Lesley Logan 7:15  

Yeah, anywhere you are, at any level, with whatever you got. It's pretty great. It is the workout that works for you. That's what we say. So you guys, we're going to be home for a bit, and then we're going to be in Cambodia. You cannot join us this year in Cambodia, but you can certainly join us next year by getting on our waitlist. We will open up our early-bird special in January. If you hear a dog snoring in the background, her name is Darla. We cannot stop this; it's just going to keep going. But before we head to Cambodia, we're actually driving to Sacramento. I'm teaching, and we'll have a booth at the Sacramento POT. It is the Balanced Body 50th-Year Celebration. The ultimate, the penult, the penultimate, the, what do you call it? I mean, they've been celebrating all year long at all the different POTs.


Lesley Logan 7:53  

No, but anyways, it's at the headquarter area, and it's gonna be so much fun. And then after that, I'll be at the POT India. So I am at all the 50th anniversary POTS. Basically, I'll be a


Brad Crowell 8:03  

A 50-year celebration is called a golden jubilee or a golden anniversary.


Lesley Logan 8:08  

The Jubilee. I don't think they know that. I don't think they do either because they could have done a Jubilee instead of a whatever party. Anyways, here we are. So, if you want information about the Sacramento POT or what I'm doing in Goa, India, which, by the way, it looks stunning. I really will just say yes. I said yes because it's going to be at this stunning resort at the beach in Goa, and there's a bunch of Americans who are also going because they're like, "I wanted to take a workshop from you, and I've always wanted to go to India." And I'm like, "Well, see you there." Me too. So xxll.co/pot will get you information on both Sacramento and Goa. I have no idea how to get you information, but I am going to teach in China this year.


Brad Crowell 8:44  

Woo!


Lesley Logan 8:45  

This is a big deal.


Brad Crowell 8:46  

Yeah, just outside of Shanghai.


Lesley Logan 8:47  

Yeah, I don't even know how I'm getting there yet at the time of this recording. But we're figuring it out, everyone. Basically, here's what's going on. I am doing a lot of traveling with and without Brad this year because next year I'm not, because next year we're focused only on upLift, eLevate, our tours, and so it's quite an exciting time. I haven't said yes to anything for next year, and we're recording this in the summer, which is kind of insane because usually I'm already booked out, but we're not because we're saying, "Not yet, not yet." Anyways, all right, we got to get into this episode, but before that, Brad, what is the awareness that we're bringing people's attention to today?


Brad Crowell 9:25  

Yeah. So as you know, we switched to charity of the week instead of questions. So today we are doing something slightly different. We encourage you to seek out local businesses in your community to celebrate National Black Business Month. Yeah. So this month, instead of highlighting just one charity, we're focused on the whole month to go out and support your local Black-owned businesses. Why? Back in 1921 in Tulsa, Oklahoma, it was home to one of the wealthiest Black communities in the country, the Greenwood District, known as Black Wall Street. In the span of about 15 years, it had built up hundreds of Black-owned businesses: grocers, theaters, hotels, doctors' offices, over 1000 homes. And then, over a two-day period, white mobs, some of them literally deputized by the city, burned more than 35 city blocks. They burned them to the ground, and as many as 300 people died. Roughly 10,000 were left homeless, and not a single person was ever prosecuted. Yeah, for decades it barely appeared in the history books, and Greenwood residents rebuilt, but the community never got back to where it fully was. Survivors were never compensated. So when we talk about supporting Black-owned businesses today, it's not just a nice idea; it's part of rebuilding something that was deliberately destroyed.


Lesley Logan 10:42  

It's crazy because I didn't learn about this. I heard about this around 2020.


Brad Crowell 10:46  

Yeah, I started to hear about this. Actually, there were TV shows that were focused on this in the superhero world, and I started watching it, and I was like, "Whoa, this is crazy! How did I never hear about this?" And then I started to really learn more about it, and it's just tragic. It's just unbelievable. It's unbelievable.


Lesley Logan 11:04  

Here's the thing: if a hurricane does this, we're in an uproar if the government doesn't go in fast enough and fix things, right? But this was deliberately done. This is not, it's just hate racism. Yeah. And then no one went in and helped any of these people, and so yet again, a group of people were set back even further. So not only did we not do restitution after slavery, when they finally do get ahead, well, let's burn it to the ground and create even more problems. And so it's just really fucking frustrating.


Brad Crowell 11:34  

There is a, you know, if you're wondering how to go support local Black-owned businesses in your community, there's a great resource that you can use, that is ByBlack.us. It's a national directory built by the U.S. Black Chamber of Commerce. It's searchable by location and even has curated city guides. So wherever you're listening from, you can find Black-owned businesses near you. And if you're local to us in Las Vegas, check out the Greater Las Vegas Black Chamber of Commerce at glvbcc.org, and also the Henderson Black Chamber of Commerce or the local directory called Black Biz Connect Las Vegas.


Lesley Logan 12:16  

Yeah, and that came up just when we were doing this search, so you can also figure that out by putting your city in. It's just a great thing to do if you want to just be... Here's the deal: we vote with our dollars, and so every single day there are things that we have to do for these fucking billionaires because we can't get away from it. But also, you can do this, and you can make small changes. So it's really important. We recently, at the time of recording this, had donated $800 to the Nevada SPCA, right? And I was like, "Oh, I know it's only $800," and they're like, "It's a lot of money. Thank you so much." It's from your flashcards for quarter two. And I said, "Oh, can I find out what does that do?" And they were able to show me what $800 can do, right? It can feed 114 shelter animals for one week. So when you take your dollars and you put them locally into a locally owned business, you are making major impacts. The ripple effects are things you can't even understand or see. And then when you direct that to being a Black-owned business, you are actually helping. It's just something that's really, really amazing because that means family members and friends of that business owner are seeing that they can be successful as an entrepreneur. If you can't see things happen in your life, it's really hard to be it till you see it. So I just think it's important. I thought it was a great way to honor this month. And so just put your city in and put "Black-owned businesses," and you'll get a list, I'm sure.


Brad Crowell 13:33  

Yeah, awesome. So thanks for supporting your local Black-owned businesses. And if you have any Black-owned businesses, or actually any charities at all, that you suggest that we do some research on and then bring to the pod, text us at 310-905-5534. 310-905-5534. Stick around. We'll be right back. 


Brad Crowell 13:54  

All right. Well, let's talk about Tara Connaghan. Tara is a traditional Irish fiddle player from Donegal with nearly 40 years of experience playing music. I think she said more than 40 years of experience. In fact, I think she said she's been teaching for 40 years.


Lesley Logan 14:10  

I mean, she doesn't look that old, so I don't think she could be. I don't think she's in her 60s.


Brad Crowell 14:14  

Regardless, she's very, very clearly an expert. She's the creator and host of the award-winning podcast, In Tune with Tradition: Perspectives on Session Etiquette and Irish Traditional Music. That is a very niche pod.


Lesley Logan 14:29  

It's a niche in a niche.


Brad Crowell 14:30  

It breaks down the unspoken cultural rules of Irish music sessions. She also teaches adults and leads private immersion experiences in Ireland for musicians wanting to dive deeper on session culture. Side note: She actually has a tour coming up in September 2026, so next month. So go to sessionetiquette.com/retreat for details. Pretty sure she said it's happening in Ireland. 


Lesley Logan 14:55  

I think so. And also, by the way, if you don't even know what Irish music is and session etiquette, don't be like, "What is this podcast episode about?" I don't know, because actually everything that we discussed about that can be applied to being a beginner at anything. So I really, really like it.


Brad Crowell 15:09  

Yeah. Yeah. So.


Lesley Logan 15:11  

Well, I'll just go first. So I think we can all understand. When you're a beginner, there can be a performance anxiety of sorts. You're not sure if you're wanting to be a knitter. Okay, an example: Andrea Maida and her husband and Brad and I went to a knitting store because Andrea Maida, a dear friend of ours, Pilates instructor, is a knitter. So we go to a knitting store, and there's a whole table of all these knitters, and they're just hanging out. And Andrea's like, "We can just go talk to them." And I'm, "I don't... are we allowed to go talk to them?" And then the first thing someone says, "Are you knit worthy?" Remember that? "Are you knit worthy?" And I was, "I don't know." If I was an aspiring knitter, I can tell you right now that I didn't feel welcome. I felt anxiety. But the other people, "Oh, don't let her get to you. You can sit down here." But I didn't know the etiquette of walking into a knit place. And so, when you are a beginner, there is an anxiety about how do I join? What's the etiquette? Do I have enough skills to be here? Am I allowed to sit here? Can I sit there? And she explained that you're scared because you just don't know how to enter the space. And I think it's really important to acknowledge that when we're beginners at things, we're allowed to have some fear, you know. 


Brad Crowell 16:15  

100%. I mean, it's just natural. It's part of it. It's like getting on stage the first time you're on stage. Your throat is parched. You're completely freaking out inside, but it just takes practice. The more you do it, the less you're in that headspace. Yeah. But also, too.


Lesley Logan 16:32  

You play jazz, right? You play jazz.


Brad Crowell 16:35  

I played jazz. It's been a long time.


Lesley Logan 16:37  

But there are sessions. There's times when people get together to just play, and then there are times people can join in, right?


Brad Crowell 16:43  

Yes. So I'm going to talk a little bit more about that when I share what I really loved about this conversation. But yes, in the jazz world, it's called a jam session, right? And you hear musicians, "Let's get together and jam." I generally hate a jam session when it's not jazz music, honestly. It was interesting to hear her talk about the different levels of learning and the different layers of how people interact in a jam session. Because when I was younger, when I was studying jazz and I was performing, I play the trombone, for all of you who don't know. I started playing in fourth grade, and I went all the way through college studying very intentionally on the trombone. And I was really good at the time, really, really good. I wasn't ever recording on the trombone because what I was really passionate about was playing the bass and singing. So even though I was really good on the trombone, that wasn't really where my heart was at the time. When I was playing it in college, you'd get together with people, and if they were not that good on their instrument or they hadn't had a lot of experience playing with other people in a space where you're listening to other people, then you don't know what to do. And this is a perfect parallel. Have you ever been in a conversation where someone only talks about themselves?


Lesley Logan 18:06  

Yeah.


Brad Crowell 18:06  

The whole fucking time.


Lesley Logan 18:08  

Yeah.


Brad Crowell 18:08  

And they never ask a reciprocating question.


Lesley Logan 18:11  

Yeah.


Brad Crowell 18:12  

It's not a back-and-forth.


Lesley Logan 18:13  

Yeah.


Brad Crowell 18:14  

Yeah. Musicians can do that too. They can just take over.


Lesley Logan 18:17  

Well, and I think to wrap up my point, what I love is just like she says, once you learn the rules and the etiquette, the anxiety can disappear because you know what the rules are. I think a lot of times some of us are afraid to be beginners, and then we don't ever get to figure out what the rules are, so we never feel like we can be a beginner. But if you know what the rules are, then you know where you can play, right? I think, in a non-musical example, I get people who want to be on this podcast all the time. They're like, "We should do a pod swap." They pitch me. I'm okay. I love the balls. I love that confidence. They have 10 episodes. I have 700. I appreciate the invite, but that's not a mutual thing. I'm bringing so much more expertise. They're not going to have the conversation I want to have with 700 episodes with their 10. Or maybe they have a whole other following. They could back that up. Maybe they're up-and-coming. But really, no offense to them, it's not like they are below, but they actually need to go get experience with other people with 10 episodes, coming over here is not really going to be helpful for them because they don't really, you have to have experience to play. Like in Pilates, I absolutely love taking sessions from people who've been teaching for decades, right? But I'm not going to be, "Oh, you want to do a trade, Jay? Sandy, should we trade?" No. Not that I can't teach them something, but really it's not an equal exchange of information.


Brad Crowell 19:37  

Yeah, I mean, this rolls straight into one of the things I loved about the conversation. She was talking about the etiquette of joining sessions as a newbie or a beginner. She said it's a very gentle process where you're kind of coming into it in a gentle way, and the anxiety of it and the, you have to be self-aware enough to know that you are easing your way in. For me, the easy parallel is growing up in a large family where I had lots of aunts and uncles and thinking about Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas dinner or something where everyone came over and they had the kids' table and they had the adults, right? And the kids' table, their conversation was generally about kid stuff, but I always ended up gravitating toward the adult table. And when I would get there, I had nothing to contribute to the conversation because I was 12, right? What do I know? I don't know anything about anything. But I'm listening to the adults talk about adult things, which I didn't even know what they were talking about. Didn't matter. I didn't have anything to contribute, so I didn't say anything, right? So when I was mentioning earlier, sometimes people can be in conversations where they 100% dominate the conversation, and it's not a conversation; it's one-sided. Alternatively, the other side of that is never contributing to a conversation and not having the confidence to speak up. And a lot of people never get past that, right? Even imagine if I was 12, then 15, then 18, and I'm still sitting at the adult table, but I'm not talking. I'm not participating in the conversation. I'm still taking it all in, but why am I not contributing back, right? So there's these two sides of the fence there. 


Lesley Logan 21:19  

There's two extremes, and there's allowing yourself to be an observer because you're new to that table, and then at some point, you got to shit or get off the pot.


Brad Crowell 21:27  

Yeah, that's right. At some point, you actually have to participate. 


Lesley Logan 21:30  

And I think where it happens is there has to be someone at that table who also invites you in. 


Brad Crowell 21:33  

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. 


Lesley Logan 21:34  

Remember the knitting table we started with? That woman who was, "Are you knit worthy?" I was, "I don't think so." I don't think I even replied to her. But then there was, "Oh, come sit down! Don't let her scare you!" Right?


Brad Crowell 21:45  

That's right.


Lesley Logan 21:45  

There needs to be someone who is aware of all the dynamics, who can be the guide.


Brad Crowell 21:51  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 21:51  

You know, and so then you attach yourself to the guide, and you allow the guide to show you what's going on, what's the appropriate behavior here. We're watching The Pitt again, you guys. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. There's so much nuance to The Pitt. I love it so much. Dynamics, everything, everything. I can apply science of learning to The Pitt. All these different things, right? And that Mel King, bless her soul, her character just speaks in my heart. But she's going to high-five people after they save a guy's life, and no one high-fives her because that's not the etiquette. It's not what you do. It's your first day, babe. You're in their third hour, right? And so she's, "Oh, okay." She sits down. So she's trying to observe what the behavior is and trying to learn how to fit in. And it takes time. You're going to get it wrong. And that's the thing. You are going to fuck up at some point. You are going to think that you're invited in and you're doing the right thing. But actually, they changed the rules last week, and they moved it half an hour. And that doesn't make you a bad person. You just got to have self-awareness, you know, and then also a little gumption.


Brad Crowell 22:50  

Yeah, and I think, you know, thinking back to etiquette of joining a session as a newbie or beginner, it is valuable to sit at the kids' table when you're a kid so that you can have conversations with your peers, and then you learn something from that so that when you do move to the adults' table, you have some understanding of just how conversation works. So in the same way, with music. 


Lesley Logan 23:11  

I think it's good to outgrow the kids' table because, yes, then you can recognize that you were the guide at the kids' table, and now you're over at the adults' table, so you can spot who the guide is over there. You know, I think it's good to have the experiences.


Brad Crowell 23:24  

Yeah, and that's definitely how it works with jazz and jamming. It's important to work with people who are, well, I mean, you talked about this specifically with Tara, the people who are where you once were, people who are where you are at now, and the people who are where you want to be, you know, so that you can be a guide, you can have fun with your peers, you can learn from someone who is where you want to be. And so, for example, here in Las Vegas, once a week I go to a local bar. They host a jam night, and it's a jazz jam night, and they encourage people to sit in. Bring your instrument, come play. We'll always welcome you in. You can always play for a tune or whatever. And then generally, what they'll do is they'll let you name the tune so that you have the confidence. "Okay, I know this song."


Lesley Logan 24:16  

Oh, I love that.


Brad Crowell 24:16  

You know, and then basically they all know all the songs. These guys are pro musicians. They're absolutely incredibly well-versed, and if they don't know the song, they can figure out the song in the moment. They're amazing, right? And so it's actually really intimidating because, especially if you're a newbie playing with a crew like that, those guys are the pros, right? And so it's great experience, but it's also like you're not really in their circle. You know what I mean?


Lesley Logan 24:44  

No. I do love how they approach that. I love that because they're actually saying, "Okay, you've been sitting here long enough. We can see that you're jamming with us. You're tipping your head to the beat or your foot to the beat. You can do something. You pick the song." So they're allowing you to have confidence in what you're going to do. And then they get to invite you in, and then after that they never have to again, or you get to keep coming. You broke the seal. It makes me think of David Doss as well. Remember when David Doss played at the Horse Trailer Hideout, and he noticed you were whistling, and then he's like, "Do you know the song?" He invited you in.


Brad Crowell 25:14  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 25:15  

Because you have done karaoke, and you've been in bands, and you've toured as a singer. The stage doesn't scare you, but he does that with people all the time, and often they are not performers. 


Brad Crowell 25:26  

Right. Often they're not. 


Lesley Logan 25:27  

But he is allowing them to pick a song that they can do well. And I think that's just something for those of us, I think we all can take the application of etiquette and things like that to everything. I have people I go to learn from because they challenge me, right? There are people I challenge, and then there are people that I challenge to challenge people below. We all have to be doing that. Otherwise, first of all, the people that I go to, they go to people. Why? Because if they are not learning from other people, they're not going to be a good teacher for me. So I think we can all recognize where we are as the person who is the expert in one room, but maybe we're a beginner in this room. And how can we make sure that we're moving along, but we're also moving other people along? We can't always be the guide. At some point, we have to pass the torch.


Brad Crowell 26:11  

Yeah, you're right. You're right on the money on that. It is important to set yourself up to be a guide for the next generation coming along. There's one other thing I wanted to mention about the conversation before I moved on, and that is about the skill of listening and responding to others in a musical context, but also in a conversation. For example, I just did it. I acknowledged what you said, and then I changed the topic. Right? When I was in college, I don't even know how I met this professor, but he said, "Hey, I want you to come audition for this class. You can't just join the class; you have to audition for the class." I was, "Okay." So I didn't even know what that meant. He didn't give me anything to prepare. I didn't know what was going on, so I just brought a bunch of music with me that I could play. And he was like, "All right, cool. I want you to play this thing," and I just played it. And he was, "Okay, cool. Now I'm going to play this on my guitar, and I want you to play along with me." And then we did. And then he's like, "I'm going to let you lead, and then I'm going to play along with you." And I was, "Okay." And we did this half-hour audition, right? And afterwards, he asked me a few questions, and he invited me to join this class. And literally this entire class was what he taught was the art of listening, right? And it wasn't what the class was even called. I can't remember what it was called. It was an unbelievable class. And this guy is one of the most astounding musicians I've ever met. He could hear an entire song and then write the song down afterwards in musical notation. He had.


Lesley Logan 27:41  

That's a crazy memory.


Brad Crowell 27:42  

It was perfect memory and perfect pitch. He could listen to a song and understand exactly what was happening. He could see it and write it out. 


Lesley Logan 27:48  

What a savant!


Brad Crowell 27:49  

Yeah, savant, completely. But what he did in that class was so awkward because there was no music. There was no jam. You didn't have a rhythm that you were playing to. He took our class and he said, "All right, today in class we've got a French horn, two guitars, a bass. We got a guy playing the timbale, which is a weird drum that is amazing, and we got a trombone player, and then there's a guitar player. So go." We're, "What do you mean, go?" And he's, "Someone can start playing, and then if you feel inspired by what they're playing, I want you to play off of what they're playing. And then other people are going to jump in, and they're going to play, and then you're going to play, and together it will turn into something." And we were, "What the hell?"


Lesley Logan 28:35  

Every day for a whole semester?


Brad Crowell 28:37  

Not every day. It was once or twice a week. I can't remember. But it became one of my favorite classes to go to. And he told us, "You're never allowed to record this class. This class is not about turning this into a song. That's not what this is. What we're doing here is we're listening to each other, and we're responding based on what we're listening to." It was amazing. Unbelievable.


Lesley Logan 28:56  

That's cool. By the way, based on the science of learning, that's exactly what you're supposed to do. You just throw people in, and then they have to start swimming.


Brad Crowell 29:03  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 29:04  

If you don't, you just start drowning. So somebody feels the pressure enough to go, "Fuck it, okay?" And then other people are like, "Well, I don't want them to be alone," so they jump in. And then what happens is you start taking the knowledge that you have, the skill sets, and you start applying it to your long-term memory. It comes out of short-term memory. It moves into long-term memory because you're forced to hit recall because you're not actually reading any music. When you read music, you can leave that stuff in short-term memory and let it go. It switches to long-term because you're forced to listen and apply something that you've learned that could fit. It's fucking brilliant.


Brad Crowell 29:37  

Yeah. People have told me over the years, "Brad, when we're in a conversation, I feel like you're really listening to me," and I genuinely attribute that to this class.


Lesley Logan 29:46  

I would say you definitely do that better than I do on every day.


Brad Crowell 29:49  

Yeah, because I had to. I learned how to do that in the class, and now it's just part of it, you know. So anyway, just the art of listening and how do you listen and how do you participate in a group like that? How do you encourage and respond? And sometimes you're taking the lead. Sometimes you're not taking the lead.


Lesley Logan 30:07  

I think this whole thing you can apply to anything you want to do. 


Brad Crowell 30:10  

Yep.


Lesley Logan 30:10  

Because everything is with people. So anyways, we have to wrap it up. 


Brad Crowell 30:14  

I love it. Sorry, I got really excited about this episode. All right, stick around. We'll be right back. We're going to talk about those Be It Action Items. 


Brad Crowell 30:21  

All right. So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic, or targeted action items can we take away from your conversation with Tara Connaghan? She emphasized that time and consistency are the only true replacements for convenience in the learning process. Okay. Time and consistency are the only true replacements for convenience in the learning process. What does that actually mean? What is she talking about when we say convenience in the learning process?


Lesley Logan 30:48  

I think you've got to make learning easier. You have to not only do it for some time, but also consistently. So, for example, I'm doing the upLift Beta program right now. There's one person who, at the time of 30 days, has had halfway to 100 hours already, right? So that is time and consistency. They're picking up different things versus some people who only have nine. Now, I'm not saying one's better than the other. Actually, they're observing different things. But if you are only picking up something one hour once a week, you are going to have a harder time as the learning continues because you're having to restart and remember everything once a week versus if you were to even do 15 minutes every single day


Brad Crowell 31:27  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 31:27  

It might even be the same amount of time from the one time a week to the seven times a week. But because you have the consistency of picking it up, you're actually having more convenience.


Brad Crowell 31:36  

Yeah. She specifically said you don't build it up in one go; you build it up every single day. And it's more valuable to have 10 to 15 minutes a day than it is to do an hour once a week.


Lesley Logan 31:46  

It's the same, by the way, guys. This applies to everything. I do not write one newsletter at a time. I write all of them. I do not do one podcast at a time. We do several because the setup, the getting ready, all that stuff. It allows you. It's just better. So just be more consistent. You put it all together. You'll get there.


Brad Crowell 32:02  

I mean, Pilates and music, it's so much muscle memory, you know. And you can't cram muscle memory. It doesn't work. Motor learning does not work. She was equating it to brushing your teeth. You do it twice a day, forever. You've been doing it forever. So it gets to the point where it's rote. You don't even think about it anymore because you've done it so many times. You know how to do it without actually processing it. You can think about something else while you're doing that. She said, "How do you do this? How do you make sure that you get your 10 to 15 minutes a day in?" She said, "Keep your instrument in easy reach. Make it visible."


Lesley Logan 32:36  

Yeah, whatever your instrument is.


Brad Crowell 32:38  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 32:38  

I love that.


Brad Crowell 32:38  

What about you?


Lesley Logan 32:39  

She said, "Pick the thing that fills your cup and go for it."


Brad Crowell 32:42  

Yeah, just in life.


Lesley Logan 32:43  

Yeah, in life, pick the thing that fills your cup and go for it. Do the thing that really gives you so much joy and fills your cup. And I think this is really important. A lot of times, a lot of us are focused on the thing we don't do well, and they're like, "Why can't I get this?" And there are people who can get that for you. I was coaching someone today for Profitable Pilates, and she's not good at tech, but I don't have an online business, right? And so I'm listening to her whole thing she's working on, and she's doing all the right things according to all the right coaches. Then it comes out she needs nine clients, and I was like, "Girl, you don't need to be online for these nine clients for your online business. You could just tell 27 people what you do and then ask them to refer you, and I bet you'll get nine people. At worst, you get three. Yes, those three people refer you three people." But you do not need to pick the thing that you're not good at to make this business work. You need to pick the thing that you're good at and make this business work. So it applies to everything. Pick the thing that fills your cup, and then do that thing because when you fill your cup, everything is easier, including being in rooms that scare you. So yeah, I'm Lesley Logan.


Brad Crowell 33:44  

And I'm Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 33:45  

Thanks so much for being here today. Make sure that you tell Tara what touched you, what made you think of something, what aha moments you had. Send in your wins to the beitpod.com/questions, and we'll see you later. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.


Brad Crowell 33:57  

Bye for now.


Lesley Logan 33:58  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod. 


Brad Crowell 34:41  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 34:46  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.


Brad Crowell 34:50  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.


Lesley Logan 34:57  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.


Brad Crowell 35:00  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.



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