629. Tarot Echoes What You Know but Might Be Ignoring

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This recap episode reflects on the soulful conversation with tarot reader and spiritual mentor Frances Naudé, unpacking why tarot is best understood as a self-reflection tool. Brad and Lesley explore how intuition is often quiet, subtle, and easy to overlook, and how tarot can act as a structured way to pause, journal, and build self-trust. This grounded discussion invites listeners to see intuition as a daily practice—one that supports clearer decisions and more aligned action over time.


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In this episode you will learn about:

  • Tarot as guided self-reflection rather than fortune telling.
  • How intuition shows up quietly and builds through daily repetition.
  • Using tarot cards as structured prompts for journaling and self-awareness.
  • How tarot shifted from a self-reflection tool to feared over time.
  • Training intuitive trust through small, low-stakes daily decisions.


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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

There's another way to figure out what's going on inside you, and tarot doesn't actually tell you anything new. It echoes what you already know and maybe what you're ignoring. When you draw a card in tarot, the card has some sort of meaning. 


Lesley Logan 0:18  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.


Brad Crowell 1:02  

Take it away. 


Lesley Logan 1:02  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life are going to dig into the soulful, soulful, soulful. 


Brad Crowell 1:10  

The soulful.


Lesley Logan 1:11  

The soulful convo I had with Frances Naudé in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now and go back and listen to that one, and then come back to this. You guys, this is the episode that kicked off my hobby. This is the one.


Brad Crowell 1:27  

And as a bystander of said hobby, I am going to tell you, Lesley has been incredibly consistent with this hobby for, what, four or five months now? Six months? 


Lesley Logan 1:38  

Well, when I interviewed her. Six months? 


Brad Crowell 1:40  

I don't have any idea. 


Lesley Logan 1:41  

From the time that this, they listen to this, and then the time I interviewed her, I think we're at six months, four months. At any rate, I went full in on it, like the ADHD woman that I am, where you buy all the things my life makes so much sense now that I know that that's part of ADHD. You just buy. 


Brad Crowell 1:58  

July. 


Lesley Logan 1:58  

July, right. 


Brad Crowell 1:59  

July. 


Lesley Logan 2:00  

So, and this is January, yeah. So I bought all the things that one would need to study, a tarot, three different study guides and a app. But unlike all the other things that I have tried out, I have still been using all of the things, yeah. And there's a deck in every room. You can draw a card at any time.


Brad Crowell 2:19  

And you're, you know, reading about it, writing notes and being consistent, it's been great.


Lesley Logan 2:25  

I really like it, and so by the time you listen to this, I will have started drawing a card for each day so that I can do self-reflection daily. Yeah. So anyways, there we are. But okay, Brad's like, I know. All right, so they don't know. 


Brad Crowell 2:40  

They do not know what is today.


Lesley Logan 2:42  

Today is January 15th, 2026, and it's Wikipedia Day. 


Brad Crowell 2:47  

Wikipedia Day. 


Lesley Logan 2:48  

So, and just so you all know, you can start getting ready, because my birthday is coming up. It's not yet, but it's coming up January 15th isn't it? Well, they don't know.


Brad Crowell 2:57  

Just making sure that everyone else, that has nothing to do with Wikipedia Day, but Lesley is preparing for her birthday.


Lesley Logan 3:03  

If they're gonna send anything, the time is coming down, because it's 11 days away. 


Brad Crowell 3:07  

If they're gonna send something, send it to Wikipedia instead. 


Lesley Logan 3:11  

No. 


Brad Crowell 3:12  

Yeah. Send money to Wikipedia instead.


Lesley Logan 3:14  

No. Send money to your local SPCA group, not the major one that does the sad commercials, you're local one, okay, or you can send it up to Nevada's, and in my name, they'll, they already know me. 


Lesley Logan 3:25  

Okay, so January 15th is an occasion that celebrates the birth and formation of Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia. Almost every single person in the world knows what Wikipedia is. When we search for something, a Wikipedia link is the first thing that pops up on our search engines. 


Brad Crowell 3:40  

More often than not. 


Lesley Logan 3:41  

It is also a popular site since it provides in-depth information and presents everything in a user friendly way. I love Wikipedia because of like, who is that person married to? You can just go right to that part, like, it's like a here's the bullet points. Okay, in-depth information and presents everything in a user friendly way. So without further ado, let's dedicate this day to the information provider that has been feeding us with the knowledge since day one. Happy Wikipedia Day, and surprise, I should have a Wikipedia page now. It's been a multi year journey. I think how I don't know how long Brad has been working on this project to gather all the information and create this page. I'm really excited about it.


Brad Crowell 4:17  

It's because I wanted to create a Wikipedia page that we hired a press person. 


Lesley Logan 4:22  

Years ago. 


Brad Crowell 4:23  

Years ago. 


Lesley Logan 4:23  

Yeah. And by the way, how long? Like, there's rules, like, not everyone could just have a Wikipedia.


Brad Crowell 4:28  

Yeah, no, it's, it's not, you can't just write a story and put it up there. Everything has to be validated and, you know, credible and linked to other things. It's, you know. 


Lesley Logan 4:28  

Because, like, you can't just go. 


Brad Crowell 4:29  

It's intentionally factual and historic.


Lesley Logan 4:39  

Like, Charlie next door just can't go, like, I'm gonna make a Wikipedia page for myself. 


Brad Crowell 4:47  

I mean, he could, but then the moderators would take it down the next day. 


Lesley Logan 4:50  

Right. 


Brad Crowell 4:51  

Yeah. 


Lesley Logan 4:51  

Right. 


Brad Crowell 4:53  

Right. And, I mean, it's also, you know, you can actually go onto Wikipedia and make any change you want to any page on there. Surprise, you can do that. That, but then it will be reviewed and either changed back or corrected or updated or whatever, or again validated. So, you know, the pages that are constantly growing, it's because there's external like verification for the source of this new information that's being added. It's very intentional. And the reality is, we didn't have the links back, the backlinks, to be able to say, well, Lesley did this. Lesley did that, or whatever, whatever, whatever.


Lesley Logan 5:31  

Because you can't just go, I did these things. They have to go. Where is the proof? Somewhere else that someone else can validate. You know that you did those things. 


Brad Crowell 5:38  

Exactly. 


Lesley Logan 5:38  

Yeah. But I'm now old enough. 


Brad Crowell 5:39  

Congratulations. 


Lesley Logan 5:39  

I'm famous enough, yeah. And if you want to, you know, look, Wikipedia does a thing every December where they want money, because they actually are free for you to use. And they need, they do a money drive every year. So if you want to give them their money, they're a worthy cause, yeah.


Brad Crowell 5:52  

I mean, I think I give them $3.50 a month through PayPal. 


Lesley Logan 5:57  

Oh, well, that's so fun. 


Brad Crowell 5:58  

I've been doing it for years. Yeah. Because if everybody does every time they do their drive every year, they say, if everyone just gave $3 then we would have all our bills paid for, right? And I was like, well, I can do $3 a month. How about that? Yeah.


Lesley Logan 6:12  

That's so thoughtful. Anyways, Brad and I are driving back from Palm Springs today. 


Brad Crowell 6:12  

Right now. 


Lesley Logan 6:12  

We were on vacation. Yeah, we went on vacation, and we're driving, and it's beautiful. We're probably picking up more cactuses because there is a cactus shop on the way from Palm Springs. Well, at least the way we go from Palm Springs home. So we'll have to see which cactus where we don't have yet that we want more of. And then, right now, the early bird discount for the retreat that is this year is happening.,


Brad Crowell 6:12  

Yeah, for Cambodia. Pilates Retreat. 


Lesley Logan 6:18  

So if you've got an email about it. You are one of the few people who got it, and there's way too many of you on the waitlist that we could take on this year's retreat. So you definitely want to snag your spot before they're all gone, before the discount ends. 


Brad Crowell 6:49  

Yeah, and no lie, we've already had people sign up. We had, like, secret invitation to some people, and so some spots were already snagged, and then we're already halfway through the early bird, so definitely, if this has been something that's on your radar, do not wait on this. 


Lesley Logan 7:06  

You want to come. 


Brad Crowell 7:07  

Yeah, go to crowsnestretreats.com for more information. But for those of you who are on the waitlist, check your email.


Lesley Logan 7:14  

Yeah, and if we are in your spam you need to tell your your spam folder that we are important people.


Brad Crowell 7:19  

Yeah, hello. We've Wikipedia page. 


Lesley Logan 7:21  

Right. What does it take to get out of the promotions folder? Damn it. Okay.


Brad Crowell 7:26  

All right. Next month, February. 


Lesley Logan 7:28  

Is Agency Mini, and it is for Pilates instructors and studio owners who work for themselves or want to, and they want their business to actually not just make the impact that they want to make, but also more than pay their bills, to have to align with their values, align with their goals, feel like they're more in charge of it all. And it's just a really beautiful program that we do. It's three days of your life, and it has replay access. And we've made some additional changes to this one from last time. So you're gonna want to go to prfit.biz/mini to sign up for the waitlist, because those on the waitlist will get the early bird. The early bird is coming up pretty close, because if it's happening in February, we always do an early bird a couple weeks out, so you don't want to miss that. After Mini, in March, Brad and I are going to go to Poland and then to Brussels. So there's a Contrology Pilates conference in Poland. xxll .co/poland I'm teaching alongside Karen Frischmann there. It's going to be a whole lot of fun. We've done it a couple years before, and then we're gonna be at the Pilates and Friends or the Vintage and Friends event at Els Studio Pilateles in Brussels xxll.co/brussels there are private and group classes, and then there's also these amazing workshops. Oh, and one of my dear friends who I haven't seen in years, is going to be at the Brussels one as well, so I'm super excited to teach alongside him again. It's been, it's been since, like, we were together at Jay's studio, so awesome. And then in April, Brad, so after that, Brad and I are gonna do a little second honeymoon, why not.


Brad Crowell 8:53  

Well, to celebrate our 10 years of marriage, that's one.


Lesley Logan 8:56  

Yeah, well, yeah. But like, why not? Is like, of course you would, yeah. And then we're going to be at the P.O.T. in London. xxll.co/pot will get you the information up at the London stuff. The lineup is amazing. It's our first time doing a P.O.T. in London. So that's really exciting. And that's actually also, by the way, these events are the only events outside our tour that you can hang out with us other than the retreat. That's it. Closing the schedule guys.


Brad Crowell 9:23  

Whoa, whoa, whoa, all right, before we go any further, we had an audience question, and today's question is from YouTube, from The Alternatives to the Pilates Teaser for Lower Back Issues video, Kelly asks, hey, actually, it's kellynyhan7909. Hi, Kelly. She said, Hey, could you share a class that is using a floor or standing using the floor, slash standing and a chair? Could you share a class? If that's possible. I've gone through the list of mat exercises and created my own ie side twist sitting and saw but I'm wondering if more for an aging population. It, if it would be good for all i also use the standing exercises from another video for the 100, the roll up, one leg, single leg, circle marching, etc. 


Lesley Logan 9:49  

Great. So. 


Brad Crowell 9:50  

You're gonna have to break down this question for me, because I don't actually have an idea what this question actually is.


Brad Crowell 10:08  

So, the idea, so she definitely asked a question has nothing to do with the video, which we tell people that they can do anytime they want. 


Brad Crowell 10:21  

True. 


Lesley Logan 10:21  

So what you want to look at, Kelly, on the YouTube channel is we actually released a entire long form video about how to do Pilates at work. So there's going to be some great suggestions. You can draw some inspiration from there, if not use them completely. We also have on the YouTube channel a standing workout. There's a whole workout you can do standing. There's a wall workout, a real wall pilates workout. And then over on OPC, Mindy created a really great stretch class using a chair. And you can use she was on a Wunda Chair, but Brad was on a regular chair, and it spliced in there. So I would definitely grab that workshop, or maybe it was a stretch class. It was another legacy tab, and that's what I would do. And the other thing I would just give you permission on is, after you've done all that, that's a lot of movements, right? A lot of exercises. And our bodies actually only do so many different movement directions. And so you don't have to keep getting creative. You actually need they can get more curious and more connected. So I would get all those inspirations together, find out the ones that work best for the population you're working with, and then make them get better at it. And if they if that's not just time that's going to help them, then what other exercises outside of those things would help them? What props, what tools, you can use the Accessories Deck and OPC to help you with that. So yeah, I understood the question. 


Brad Crowell 10:21  

Great, amazing. 


Lesley Logan 10:21  

Probably a good thing, since I'm answering it, go to beitpod.questions to send yours in.


Brad Crowell 10:50  

Nope, beitpod.com/questions 


Lesley Logan 10:50  

beitpod.com/questions and then submit your questions and maybe send up send a win, too. Something to celebrate. 


Brad Crowell 10:50  

Yeah, send us your wins, y'all. 


Lesley Logan 11:49  

You can also text us at 310-905-5534. Okay. Frances Naudé.


Brad Crowell 11:58  

Yeah, stick around. We will be right back. 


Brad Crowell 12:01  

Okay, now let's talk about Frances Naudé. Frances Naudé is a Reiki Master, tarot reader and spiritual mentor who helps people reconnect with their intuition and live in alignment with their true selves. She's also the creator of the Four Noble Tarot Deck. Tarot Deck.


Lesley Logan 12:19  

You can see Tarot. Deena says, tarot. 


Brad Crowell 12:22  

Oh, okay, and offers free tarot readings and energy guidance.


Lesley Logan 12:28  

Frances might say tarot, but.


Brad Crowell 12:31  

On YouTube, along with regular insights on Instagram from her global community, for her global community, that she affectionately calls The Soul Fam, guided by her belief that intuition is our greatest tool, Frances teaches others to trust their inner wisdom and lead with joy, courage and authenticity.


Lesley Logan 12:50  

Oh, my God. I was just so excited. I was like, okay, I have so many questions. Tell me everything.


Brad Crowell 12:55  

I really enjoyed your one question about the history.


Lesley Logan 13:00  

Oh, are we gonna talk about that today, or is that not in today?


Brad Crowell 13:03  

We are gonna. 


Lesley Logan 13:04  

Skip it today? 


Brad Crowell 13:05  

Well, no, it's not, it's not on here, but I thought it was very interesting. So yeah, let's just talk about it. 


Lesley Logan 13:09  

Let me tell you something, because I think there's more to the story. And obviously we had a short period of time, so I asked her where tarot, tarot came from, right? And she's like, like, how controversial we want to be. And I said, I want to know the truth. And so she said the church, the church had it, and then the church. 


Brad Crowell 13:26  

She said it was around before the church, but she said the church basically, adoted it. 


Lesley Logan 13:30  

Well, they appropriated it. That's a better word for what the church does, and they appropriated it. And then, you know, you would go to the church to get support over something you were thinking about contemplating, and then they would help you use it as a self-reflection tool. Because the printing press wasn't big, and only rich people could have tarot decks painted for them, right?


Brad Crowell 13:50  

Right. So can you just say that one sentence? They would help you, using the tarot, tarot cards as a self-reflection tool. They would use tarot cards as a self-reflection tool. 


Lesley Logan 14:04  

Yeah, well, and that's like, that's gonna go into what I love about what we talked about. 


Brad Crowell 14:13  

But let's keep going with the history. 


Lesley Logan 14:09  

Okay, so then the printing press became a thing, and so then people could just print their own tarot decks, and then they didn't need to go to the church. And so obviously that was like, not gonna work for the church, because then they'd be obsolete. So they made tarot decks be like. 


Brad Crowell 14:25  

Well, I'm sure you tithe to have your reading or whatever, to have your self-reflection, so effectively it was costing them money. So what did they do? They made, they demonized tarot decks. 


Lesley Logan 14:35  

The same thing they did with women healers. They demonized those too. They demonized. That's why the reason we have witches, witchcraft, all these things, is like, oh, that one point it served the church, and another point they decided to get rid of it, because it would mean they didn't have as much power. And now it became a witchy pagan thing. And let me tell you, after I heard this, I felt like my whole life was a lie. I was like, oh, my God, everything. I've ever been told that is evil and bad was actually good. It's all been good, right? You know. So anyways, we can talk about the witches they burned on another day. But I talked to Kate Wind, who we've had on the pod before, and I said, Kate, how come I didn't know that tarot decks came from the church? And she said, well, the church, we think the church took them from the Romanians, like, which the word you don't use anymore, but like Romanian gypsies, for lack of a better, like, what we're gonna call them. However, there's also some information that could have been from India as well. 


Brad Crowell 15:43  

Interesting. 


Lesley Logan 15:33  

But you know what? Just like we've been to Cambodia, and you're at the temples, and they're like, exactly the opposite of Machu Picchu what is what is. 


Brad Crowell 15:43  

They're opposite on the globe. 


Lesley Logan 15:45  

Right and so and so, it's like, to me, when I hear these things could be at the same time. It's like, because there was this human knowing that there's another way to figure out what's going on inside you. And so tarot doesn't actually tell you anything new, it echoes what you already know and maybe what you're ignoring. And so when you draw a card in tarot, the card has some sort of meaning. We'll just talk about like the upright position has some sort of meaning, right? And what you're supposed to do is reflect upon that meaning in your own life. And so I've been studying in different ways. Like I was talking to one of my besties on the phone yesterday, and she was talking about how she's doing this inventory in her life, and she's letting go of people who don't like ping back her serve, right? You know, like you gotta, it's gotta be or that she's not pinging back on them. And I was. 


Brad Crowell 16:36  

It has to be mutual. 


Lesley Logan 16:37  

It has to be mutual. Get this, one of the card I was studying yesterday was the moon, and the moon is this card where you're like, okay, what in my life is an illusion? Where am I? Where am I off the I'm on the wrong path. Where am I needing to let go of some things.


Brad Crowell 16:53  

Sorry, did you say where am I lying to myself? 


Lesley Logan 16:56  

Yeah. 


Brad Crowell 16:56  

Oh, recurring theme from last week's.


Lesley Logan 16:58  

Yeah, right. Same, same, exactly, well. And by the way, you are just doing the exact same thing you should do with tarot, which is, like you did something today. We recorded last week's show, and now you're learning about this card, and so you're using it as a way to think differently or think deeper about, self-reflection. And so I'm telling you guys right now. I mean, Frances said so many more amazing things, but like, this is the thing, if my therapist had told me pick up a tarot deck and journal, I would have been, my life problems have been solved a long time ago. Because I, this has been like, what am I supposed to reflect on? You know what I mean, like, is that not like the question you, like when people say self-reflect, like you have to do self-reflection. Like, do you ever wonder what that means? I just don't. I was like, what does that mean, though? How do I do that?


Brad Crowell 17:46  

Yeah, sure, but I mean, I don't know that. I usually, I'm, if I'm self-reflecting, it's because there's something that is wrong, and I'm I'm probably self-reflecting about that thing. I'm not just generally self-reflecting. 


Lesley Logan 17:59  

Okay, well, that's good, but also you're that sounds like you're only doing it when something's gone wrong. You're not doing it when something's gone right. 


Brad Crowell 18:04  

Well, sure. 


Lesley Logan 18:05  

Right, and so in tarot, you could have something going well, or you could or it could be, like there could be you can use it as a yes, no, decision maker like to help you make decisions in your life. But like, everything is about it has guidance and information and the symbols, and, like we talked about that, and it helps you kind of understand, it actually helps you have empowerment. That's what she said. She said it really is all about empowerment and helping people be able to navigate their own inner wisdom and then apply it forward. And I think that's the coolest thing about it. It's like a lot of us have so much goodness, and we can only give it to our friends. We can never give it to ourselves. 


Brad Crowell 18:38  

Yeah. So this is where it's interesting for me, right? Because, like, first off, I think that, like this interview, I found very curious. I actually really like listening to Frances. I think, I think it was revealing. There was also some things that were, like, definitely a double woo on the woo scale that I was kind of like, you know, but, but here's where I also think. 


Lesley Logan 18:59  

Brad, remember, we went to two woos, starting 2025. 


Brad Crowell 19:02  

Okay, but let's, let's, then she's in the 2.5s. So, so here's the thing, she also is not just doing tarot. She's also doing Reiki, right? And yoga. She's a yogi as well, like energy work, all that kind of stuff. So there's definitely she's got a lot going on. And so her answers were not exclusive to tarot. Right? And that's where, like, sometimes I was kind of going, well, you know, like, I've actually, you know, had Reiki performed on me and all that kind of stuff in the past as well. So I don't, I don't discount energy work. I think that it's, you know, we all have, we literally have a scientific magnetic field. I get it. I understand that it can be influenced with things and all the stuff. So I don't, I'm not saying no to that, either. But what I, I think that, having grown up in the church and having been like, told that like, you know, basically, tarot is the devil, you know, and looking at it like you know, effectively, it's almost like fortune telling, like, you know, you look at tarot, it's always in movies put alongside somebody with a crystal ball reading your future, and it's always portrayed as utter bullshit.


Lesley Logan 20:10  

Yes, I think that was part of the programming. So we would avoid it.


Brad Crowell 20:13  

I think so, too, you know, but, but that's just the that's where I'm coming from with it. That's the worldview that I've had my entire life, until I'm, you know, watching you do this, and listening to her talk about it. So, you know, I think that there's still that weirdness around well, when I'm having somebody else read my tarot cards, you know, this is not fortune telling, right? And I think that's what we should be very clear. They're not just making shit up. 


Lesley Logan 20:39  

Correct. And even when you have, when you do go get a reading like Kate does them. 


Brad Crowell 20:43  

Is it a back and forth, like you're, you know.


Lesley Logan 20:45  

You didn't have, you didn't get one from Lindsay? You didn't get one from Lindsay? Eric's place years ago.


Brad Crowell 20:51  

Maybe I can't remember, I think I did, but I can't remember. But, but the, but, like, the question I had, like, it's not like I'm sitting there in silence. They're flipping cards and telling you what's going to happen. It's more of a conversation and the person is helping you come to these conclusions.


Lesley Logan 21:05  

It probably depends on the on the facilitator, but essentially, the tarot readings I've had is I had one I didn't really like. I actually asked Kate about it, and she was like, she feels like she's being a little more predicting, versus like, asking you. But the one that Lindsay did, Lindsay (inaudible). 


Brad Crowell 21:21  

She didn't do this. I think I remember it. 


Lesley Logan 21:21  

She did a reading with me, and she pulled these cards. And I don't remember the type of spread it was, but it was basically okay. So in the past, right? She had, like, a past, present, future spread of some sort. And so in the past, she's like, okay, in your past, you had x, y and z, that is currently affecting where you are presently. So what's going on in your present life was like, let's just say you drew the full card, which is the car. Like, this is the person's like, going off doing something. They're not probably prepared for it, but they're excited. And they are like, are just going for it, right? But there's these mountains in the way. They're gonna be obstacles, but they have clear skies ahead, because there's gonna be something amazing, like, that's the full so in your past, you had this opportunity to do something amazing, and that sets you off on your present and then the present card, it could be the moon, okay? But presently, you have some illusions. You might be misaligned, and you know, like this. And then in the future, oh, the future, you've got an emperor, right? I'm just picking cards that I remember by. 


Brad Crowell 22:22  

But the idea here is that there's, like, different positions, and one position is past, one position is present, one position is future. 


Lesley Logan 22:29  

If you do that, yeah. 


Brad Crowell 22:29  

And then, and then the the cards help you reflect on different things from your past, from your present, from your future. 


Lesley Logan 22:30  

Yeah. So then you can ask your and then there's self-reflection questions like, okay, what does this make me think of is there a decision that I need to be making right now that I haven't been making? Is this, is there, is there, like, you could be doing a financial spread, and then the cards could be, you take all the meanings of the cards and it's a financial spread, and you're like, oh, if you get this one, like, there's one card that, if you get it, it's like, oh, you should take more drastic, dramatic action in your investments, right where you could draw a different card that's saying, oh, you should be more careful.


Brad Crowell 23:07  

But this comes down to the predictive, not the reflection. And that's where, like, that's where. For me, this is weird.


Lesley Logan 23:12  

So I'm explaining to it in a way that, yes, I could hear how you're saying it's predictive, where you would then take it as going, oh, okay, where can I be more aggressive in my financial investments. Where have I been too like, maybe you got the card upside down. Where have I been too aggressive in my financial investments? So you take the card's meaning , and then you apply it to your life based on the spread you're doing. And this is why we couldn't, didn't have the time to get into this. 


Brad Crowell 23:38  

So it's like in the present, and then the whatever the card is, maybe the card is saying, let's talk about how this, you know, this, you've been too aggressive, or let's talk about how you've been not aggressive enough.


Lesley Logan 23:49  

You could actually draw a card that is all about intuition. And so then the question is like, okay, what is my intuition saying I should be doing today, or I should be doing right now, like you're.


Brad Crowell 23:58  

But this is what, okay, now that we're talking about it clarifying in this way, it's bringing me even more on board, because it effectively is almost like talking points. Yeah, each card represents a different talking point, a different analytical way of looking at your own past, present and future. 


Lesley Logan 24:16  

Correct. If you do that spread and so what you are supposed to do is listen to them explain what each card means and the position that it's in, and then go and apply it. Meaning, like, reflect upon it and go, okay, it like, let's say you're doing a spread that has to do with your your career, right? You, right now, Brad, are currently doing a lot more sales in the in our business, right? You could end up with, like, doing a spread where it's in the future, it's showing you as having more leadership roles. Okay? So then it's like, okay, well, if in the future, I might having to take on more leadership roles in this business, then you know, what do I need to be doing today to prepare myself? How much of how, what does that feel like for me? Do, if that is something I was going to take on, what would I like to learn about myself? What would I want to do? What should I be doing now? So that can be even a possibility, right? So, like, it just reflects upon different things. And also, it's not predictive. It's just they're all each card, what it represents is more. It's like, not, I don't want to distill it down to a vibe, but it's a vibe, right? Like, and they represent different feelings. There are some cards that, like, the cups are all about emotions. So when you draw Cups cards in your spread, and maybe it's a day spread, maybe you just do one card a day, you might draw the 10 of Cups, which is all about relationships. So then it's like, Okay, today, where can I invest more in my relationships? So for me, I prefer the Day card, because it's like, okay, it's like a focus for today, but you can use them.


Brad Crowell 25:50  

It's almost like a journal prompt, you know it's like, it's like a preconceived 365 day journal prompt.


Lesley Logan 25:56  

Correct, I bought a whole journal that does one a day, and they have stickers. And I was like, fucking in. I'm doing it. I got stickers for I got a tarot card sticker. 


Brad Crowell 26:03  

This is cool. I like this even more now. 


Lesley Logan 26:05  

And so and so, for me, the way I've been studying it is, like, the card I'm studying, I'm literally going, how today did I see did, like, when I was studying, like, the Empress, like, oh, how today was I, like, using these things that she has or, or I wasn't using these things. Oh, there was that moment today where I outsourced my intuition to this person over here. So it just helps you reflect upon yourself and get to know yourself more. And the thing is that we all need if we want to have self-love, prevent burnout, be it till we see it. If you don't know yourself like you, you don't know how to listen to yourself, then it becomes really hard. So I have really got obsessed with it, because I'm like, oh, this is a way for me to have a conversation with myself that is somewhat guided and that it's whatever card I drew, whatever card I'm learning from that day, and that allows me to reflect upon today or my past or whatever, and uncover and almost like an onion, peel back another layer without outsourcing my agency.


Brad Crowell 27:06  

Well, I was just talking about this. Well, first off, that's really cool, and I and I agree, I think it's awesome that this is like, you're not outsourcing, you're not nothing wrong with going to see a therapist or anything like that. That's not what I'm talking about. But it's nice that this is something that you can do on your own. And I was just talking about this with someone about self-reflection, and I love that this is effectively a self -reflection practice.


Lesley Logan 27:29  

Yeah, that's and that's like, I really was so pleased that Frances explained it in that way, because correct, like you, I went to a tarot reader thinking they're gonna tell me what could be coming up in the future, and I forgot the time that Lindsay did it. And more was like, okay, you've been through X, Y and Z according to your past. You're it's currently affecting in this way and presenting in this way. And in the future, this could be coming up, and you should be aware of it. And it's like, so that sounds predictive, but also I still have to be the one who goes and does the thing. So I need to reflect upon, what did I learn in the past when it comes to that area that this card is representing? What am I currently going through that this card is highlighting, and then this future card is sharing, is putting this as a thing to be looking at. Doesn't mean it's predictive, but like, if that, like, what do I, where's the gap? What do I need to know? What does that, what feeling does that bring up in me? You know? So it's not, it's more of a guide, it's just a guide. I really like it. And I, and I am so pissed that I this was it took me 43 years of my life to know this is something I could use. I'm so grateful for Frances.


Brad Crowell 28:38  

Well, nothing like a little anger to make motivate you to learn.


Lesley Logan 28:41  

Yeah. Oh, and also, people keep asking if I'm going to do a reading, and the answer is no.


Brad Crowell 28:46  

Okay, so here's the deal that's funny that you say that, you know, how do you you know, I just want to briefly touch on this before we move on to some great Be It Action Items. But because I just hijacked your whole conversation and asked about the process and the belief behind it and how it works, which I am glad we did, because I feel like it was good to clarify that I had also written down some notes about the conversation you had with listening to your own intuition, right, because you asked her questions about how did you know that you could do this full time as a career? How did this turn into a career? And I'm gonna skip a whole lot of my notes, but ultimately, she said, you know, pursuing the unconventional path requires being your own staunchest supporter. Because you were talking about, how was it like at a family picnic with people like you're doing what now are you can I like, pray for you? 


Lesley Logan 29:32  

Oh, I could only imagine. 


Brad Crowell 29:32  

Yeah, right. And so.


Lesley Logan 29:32  

When I told people I was a Pilates instructor, that was already weird. Can you imagine telling them that you're doing Reiki and tarot?


Brad Crowell 29:40  

Right. So, you know, and what she said, It's not that you have to have the it's not that you have the confidence already. It's that you trust so deeply that you're that what you're doing is what you're supposed to be doing, which is listen to it, to your intuition, right? She said, you do it scared anyways, which is being it till you see it? Right. And she said that builds your confidence. So I just wanted to make sure we got that in. I thought that was really awesome. But stick around. We'll be right back. We're gonna uncover these Be It Action Items that we got from Frances Naudé. 


Brad Crowell 30:09  

All right, welcome back. Let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Frances Naudé? She said you have to learn how to hear and trust your intuition. Learn how to hear and trust your intuition. And she said, here's a three-part practice for building your intuitive muscle. And this is great, because learn how to hear and trust your intuition is not helpful for me, but here's three steps. Here's how you do that. Start with small daily decisions, things that you do every day, like choosing your tea, picking produce, or selecting which pair of underwear to wear, because that's what she does. She picks it up and she goes, is today, this pair of underwear day, or that pair of underwear day? And she's building this intuitive muscle, you know, like listening to herself, feeling it out, right. And she said, why does she do it then? Because it's something she repeats every single day. She has to make a choice right then, and so she's.


Lesley Logan 31:04  

I'm obsessed with it, because it goes in line with how habits are created. 


Brad Crowell 31:08  

Hundred percent, yeah. She says, pause and feel after you make the choice, stop and notice what does it feel like in your body, and what energy do you have when you've made that decision. Then recognize the nature of intuition. So this is step three, recognize the nature of intuition. It's quiet. Often feels like a passing thought can lead you down paths that challenge your comfort zone and beliefs. She said, your intuition often will not make logical sense. It might not actually be loud. People always expect these really big moments, but intuition is often really quiet. So she basically, she's reminding us that daily awareness practice will help you build trust in your own guidance long before the big decisions show up


Lesley Logan 31:48  

And to the next step, then ,you have to do that first. You guys don't get to skip ahead, do that first, the next step is to define your highest self. So this is the person we're being it until we see, right? This is a place that exists without ego, she said, without fears, worries, anxieties, and without other people's stories. So yeah, get rid of the other people's stories that are in your head, telling you who your highest self is. And then she encouraged you to clearly define who that self is and live by it. And she, Frances actually shared her three pillars of her highest self, which are, she lets joy lead. She does not let fear get in her way, and she lives in unity with all that's around her. I think that that's those are really tough things to kind of do, because we all want to control how things are. But if you let joy lead hence the going back to last week's episode, I love that these are back to back episodes, and then not letting fear get in the way. That means doing things scared. You know, going back to last week's episode. So so she also said, when you combine a strength and intuitive muscle with a clear vision of the highest self, every decision you make, you are walking that aligned path, even when the noise gets loud. And I just want to say that one more time, when you combine a strength and intuitive muscle with a clear vision of that highest self, every decision you make, you're walking that aligned path. So that's what I want for you guys. And I'm really, really like, I hate how long it took us to get this episode out, Frances, because, like, I've been working so hard on my tarot, but I really am super excited that it's coming out this time of the new year, when people can actually, like, instead of going new year, new me, it's like, what, what, who are, is your highest self. That should be the thing that you're thinking about. And then what can you do every day to walk in alignment with that? And that's going to help you with all the ups and downs and highs and lows. I'm Lesley Logan. 


Brad Crowell 33:31  

And I'm Brad Crowell. 


Lesley Logan 33:32  

Thank you, Frances Naudé. Y'all, how are we gonna use these tips in your life? What were your favorite parts? Make sure you tag Frances. By the way, you guys, she does a weekly drawing every single Monday. It's quite fun to attend live, and I'm sure you can get to know more about her. And look, I probably got some of this information wrong, but this is my interpretation of it. I'm sticking with it. Don't take it from me. All right, until next time. Be It Till You See It.


Brad Crowell 33:52  

Bye for now. 


Lesley Logan 33:54  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.


Brad Crowell 34:36  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 34:41  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.


Brad Crowell 34:46  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.


Lesley Logan 34:53  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.


Brad Crowell 34:56  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.



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