Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell break down what it actually looks like to leave a job with grace. In this episode, they unpack the candid conversation with New York City-based actress and novelist Clare Solly on why the employer-employee relationship doesn't require lifelong debt, how to keep your exit short and sweet, and what to do when getting fired feels deeply personal. They also dig into her biggest piece of advice: give yourself space before jumping into the next job.

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In this episode you will learn about:

How The Trevor Project's escape-key feature protects LGBTQ youth.
Why the employer-employee relationship doesn't require lifelong debt.
The two-sentence advice for exiting a job gracefully.
Being fired is professional feedback, not personal failure.
The importance of building a career exit strategy like a house fire plan.

Episode References/Links:

OPC – https://opc.me
OPC Summer Tour – https://opc.me/tour
eLevate Mentorship Program – https://lesleylogan.co/elevate
OPC Flashcards – https://opc.me/flashcards
Balanced Body - https://www.pilates.com/
Contrology - https://contrology.pilates.com/
The Trevor Project – https://www.thetrevorproject.org
The Center Las Vegas (LGBTQ Center) – https://thecenterlv.org
The Pitt (TV series) – https://www.max.com/shows/the-pitt
Submit your wins or questions - https://beitpod.com/questions

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Resources:

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Episode Transcript:

Brad Crowell 0:00

Yeah, the employer-employee relationship does not inherently require a lifelong debt, meaning that, of course, when you're working for someone, do everything anything that's part of your role, but you don't owe them your life.

Lesley Logan 0:15

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:58

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the gracious convoy I had with Clare Solly in our last episode.

Lesley Logan 1:06

If you didn't listen, you missed out on the third time. Clare Solly has been, she's one of few people who've been on three times.

Brad Crowell 1:13

She is, but I think she's been on way more than that, because she's done recaps for me and all sorts of stuff. So, as a guest three times, yes, but longtime listeners will definitely know who Clare is. Clare and Lesley go way, way back, before I was in the picture, by like years.

Lesley Logan 1:32

We go back to like 2001.

Brad Crowell 1:33

But way, you go back to 2001? So, like, I think I was still, what? 2001 we were graduating from high school.

Lesley Logan 1:45

I went to college in 2001 as well.

Brad Crowell 1:48

That's when you met, your first year in college.

Lesley Logan 1:50

Yeah, I got a job. I was broke.

Brad Crowell 1:53

I was broke. Well, amazing. Yeah, well, anyway, I was listening to your pod, and the two of you are hilarious, because it's like blah-blah-blah, just 100% riffing off each other.

Lesley Logan 2:13

See why people are like, "I'm going to pod my best friend, and we're just going to talk about things." Because inevitably something good is going to come out of it. Oh yeah, you said, "Be organized," to like, what are we talking about? Which is like, so we originally, the team was like, "Do we want her on the pod," and I was like, "What will we talk about?" And then she and I were like, doing whatever recaps it is, she's like, "We should talk about ending," whatever, it was, and I was like, "Okay, great," exiting, "The team will be thrilled to know that we have a topic."

Brad Crowell 2:38

You picked a topic.

Lesley Logan 2:39

We did it. You guys, just so you know, we love that you listen. We love that you share those with friends. Another way you can support this podcast is by being an OPC member. If you go to onlinepilatesclasses.com, you can actually check out what we do. We have real Pilates for real bodies, it's the workout that works for you. There's lots of different ways to do it, and people are often like, "How can I support this show?" And Brad and I have talked about, like, do we do a commercial-free one where people pay?

Brad Crowell 3:04

Yeah, we thought about that, like having a second one that's no ads, like all these different things.

Lesley Logan 3:08

No, we're not doing more work. What actually would be really meaningful for us is, if you're going to give us money, we want you to actually get something out of it, not just like listening to us take up space. We really want you to actually take time for yourself and move your body, and that's what OPC is all about. It's actually about you having time for yourself. The classes are 2% of your day, and you get to compare yourself to yourself. So, go to OPC, I guess, what do they do? Go to opc.me/40?

Brad Crowell 3:34

Just go to opc.me

Lesley Logan 3:36

Oh, great. Do that, even easier. Okay. Today is June 11th and it's Certified Nurses Week, aka CNA Week. It takes place on Thursday of the second full week of June. I really do love.

Brad Crowell 3:50

The Thursday of the second full week.

Lesley Logan 3:53

I love when it's not.

Brad Crowell 3:54

Of the month of June.

Lesley Logan 3:55

It can't be, it can't be the second Thursday. It has to be the second Thursday, the Thursday of the second full week.

Brad Crowell 4:01

Yeah.

Lesley Logan 4:01

So, Thursday can't be, it can't be the eighth ever.

Brad Crowell 4:04

Because if the week starts on a Wednesday, that first Thursday does not count. If the month's first week starts on a Wednesday, or like not a full week, right? Then the first Thursday might not count.

Lesley Logan 4:17

Right.

Brad Crowell 4:17

Right. So, the Thursday of the second full week.

Lesley Logan 4:22

I think that's complicated. Instead of saying.

Brad Crowell 4:27

Because there might not be a second Thursday.

Lesley Logan 4:29

But what they, well, they could just say the second Thursday of June.

Brad Crowell 4:31

No, it might not be the second Thursday.

Lesley Logan 4:33

No, if June 2nd is a Thursday, then June 9th is a Thursday, that's the second Thursday. I think they made it complicated.

Brad Crowell 4:40

But that wouldn't be it, it would be on the next week.

Lesley Logan 4:42

So, listener, hold on, you mean to tell me that people don't grab the 30-day calendar and go one, two?

Brad Crowell 4:52

Not necessarily, if it's not a full week, that's the caveat here.

Lesley Logan 4:56

I think that's crazy. I'm telling you, I always, when we do FYS, I don't go skipping the first Friday because it wasn't a full week, I do all the Fridays.

Brad Crowell 5:08

I am with you on this. I am agreeing with you. This is not simple.

Lesley Logan 5:12

It's not simple to be a CNA either. So, it takes place on the second full week of June. Do you like that? Like that lead back, is a week full of, oh, because they also want a week. Okay, notice.

Brad Crowell 5:26

It's a full week.

Lesley Logan 5:26

It's a full week of celebrations, but it starts on a Thursday, it's a full week of celebrations honoring the hard work. Do you all want to know why I think I'm ADHD? Here's the autism. I'm so stuck on this second Thursday. This year it is held from June 11th to June 17th. Certified nursing assistants began working under the Red Cross program during World War One, and have served alongside US Army nurses. Hundreds of young women were trained to care for wounded soldiers in reserve, field-based, and civilian hospitals. Did you know that before 1987 nursing assistants were not required to have a formal education?

Brad Crowell 6:01

I did not know that.

Lesley Logan 6:03

Okay, so who's seen The Pit? Because there's actually a whole episode on the medics. Did you know that?

Brad Crowell 6:08

Well, this is why I was asking you what the name of the show is that you're watching right now. I yelled it across the house earlier when I was like, "What's that show called?"

Lesley Logan 6:15

I'm hyper-vigilant, but okay. One, I'm not new to The Pit. It's already like, I don't know, filming season three or something like that, and won many awards. All of my friends talk about it week after week when it first came out.

Brad Crowell 6:26

But you're new to it.

Lesley Logan 6:27

I'm new to it, because as much as I appreciate the nostalgia of a weekly show that we all talk about, I don't have that capacity. If I'm going to sit down and watch a show, I want to binge through, like I really like that I can, and all that stuff anyways, because I won't. The next week I'll forget, and then I'll be like, spoiler alerts that I'm trying not to watch, like when Love is Blind was dropping in increments. I'm like, "Fuck, I have to get off my Instagram, because the spoilers are coming." So, because it's spoiled, and I didn't pay attention to it because it wasn't what I was clicking on, I saw on a plane yesterday, I watched 10 episodes in a row, I'm obsessed, and the head nurse is like kicking ass. But they did have a whole episode on this guy talking about what the first field medicals were and how they became one. Anyways, I also believe, maybe it wasn't the nurses, that might have been the women who were doing the phone lines, but they had to pay for their own uniforms and things like that, so there's all this different stuff. Anyways, you guys, we have a nursing shortage in the United States of America because it sucks to work in healthcare. The only people making money in healthcare is CVS and the insurance companies. This is not sponsored by them, but you know they've got the money, so come on over. So the reality is, please be kind to your nurses, we need every single one of them. I know it's frustrating when you have to go to, I wasn't even at the hospital, I was at a doctor's office, and they make me fill out this online check-in sheet every single time. I have to fill in my allergies, my first period, my family stuff, every single time. And the second time I went in a month, I said, "Hey guys, is there any way where I can just tap a box that says nothing has changed, everything is the same, there's zero.

Brad Crowell 8:12

I just felt that I wasn't filling it out.

Lesley Logan 8:14

Yeah, like the only thing that's different is my last cycle. I'll give you that, because it's a female doctor, anyway. But I said, "Look, I'm not trying to, I'm just here." But be nice to them, be nice to them, it is their CNA week, so go.

Brad Crowell 8:29

So, there are apparently on average 190,000 annual openings for registered nurses each year, projected through 2032.

Lesley Logan 8:42

Wow.

Brad Crowell 8:43

Due to retirements, burnouts, and rising care demands. And while the workforce is growing, it cannot keep pace with the needs of an aging boomer population.

Lesley Logan 8:54

Oh, this boomer population, man, they just, love you, because some of you are boomers, but, man.

Brad Crowell 9:00

Yeah. So, anyway, nurses are very important, and it's a high-stress job, so all the props to the nurses out there.

Lesley Logan 9:10

Yeah, okay. Upcoming travel notes, you guys, we're around, we're sticking.

Brad Crowell 9:14

Yeah, we're home for a minute, and it's nice.

Lesley Logan 9:17

Kind of at home. Although, although, when you're watching this, what day is this?

Brad Crowell 9:21

We are June 11th.

Lesley Logan 9:22

Oh, yeah. No, I'm home, solidly in the house.

Brad Crowell 9:25

June and July, we're home.

Lesley Logan 9:27

We might even foster a puppy or something like that.

Brad Crowell 9:29

Yeah, we're gonna go take some dogs and hikes. We're rebuilding the van right now.

Lesley Logan 9:34

We means Brad.

Brad Crowell 9:35

We means Brad. Brad is rebuilding the van right now from the inside out, obviously.

Lesley Logan 9:40

Well, the outside's done.

Brad Crowell 9:41

Yeah. Well, not necessarily. Well, actually, I guess I'm adding a roof rack and I'm adding all the solar and all this extra stuff. So, like, we're getting fancy, and I got some really cool specs done for the interior, and we're, we're gonna be completely overhauling it before the summer tour, which is coming up, so tickets are definitely available. You can go to opc.me/tour we're actually going to be doing a Saturn's ring loop around the middle of the country, like Lesley said last week, which I thought was hilarious.

Lesley Logan 10:08

Oh, just so you know, our tours are again sponsored by Balanced Body and Contrology, so we're also bringing the Contrology Reformer, Mat and Spine Corrector.

Brad Crowell 10:17

We sure are.

Lesley Logan 10:17

They all have some great prizes for you. I put another request in for the liner, because everyone loves it. It's so fun, easy to take with you. It's a really great community, and it's time, and you also can go to multiple locations on this tour, because we are on a status ring, but that also means, since the map isn't 3D, we're really just, you know.

Brad Crowell 10:37

Okay, okay. I think they got the idea. The point is, we're going in a circle.

Lesley Logan 10:41

Stops are within a couple of miles.

Brad Crowell 10:42

It's a squeeze circle.

Lesley Logan 10:43

It's a squeeze circle,

Brad Crowell 10:44

Yeah, a couple of hours, several stops within a couple of hours, not a couple of miles.

Lesley Logan 10:48

A couple of hours.

Brad Crowell 10:49

But anyway, the go to opc.me/tour we're doing 14, I think it's 14 stops, and we're.

Lesley Logan 10:55

I have no idea, it's not we're going to this, I haven't even seen the list.

Brad Crowell 10:58

It's good, it's gonna be great, we're excited, we're visiting some new spots, revisiting some old spots, and can't wait to see everyone. So, if you want to come have a Pilates party with us, join us on tour. And then, if you're new here, Lesley teaches a mentorship program for teachers, it's called eLevate, and we might be sold out at this point, but we only do one turn, one round of it per year, and next year we're doing 16 spots, and it's you can find all the information about that at Lesley logan.co/elevate and also we have almost completed the full project here of these flash cards that we've been on a mission for for six years, the last that came out last year. Now we're working on, like, you know, like a.

Lesley Logan 11:41

Collector's box that has like a cute little stand. I don't know, I've got some ideas. It might take us a little longer than we thought.

Brad Crowell 11:47

Yeah, it's not as much of a priority, that's for sure. But you should go check out the cards themselves, because they're epic. Go to opc.me/flashcards, opc.me/flashcards.

Lesley Logan 11:56

You know what, I wish maybe it's more of like somehow it's a stand where the you could put, you could put the card on the front or the back of this clear thing, and the back could be a magnifier.

Brad Crowell 12:09

Oh, that's interesting.

Lesley Logan 12:10

So, like, it, you could put the card in the front and of the slot, and it would just hold it up super cute, but if you put it on the behind, it would magnify it. For our perimenopausal ladies, I cannot get enough words on there and get the font to 10, so.

Brad Crowell 12:24

That's why we linked back to the website on every card, because the website we can write as much as we want.

Lesley Logan 12:29

And you can make it bigger.

Brad Crowell 12:31

Yes, and you do that too. Cool. So, check this out. Go to opc.me/flashcards. Okay, so this week's charitable organization.

Lesley Logan 12:38

Yes, yes, we made this change a couple weeks ago. Go back and listen if you want to know why we made the change. We don't have time for it today. June is Pride Month, you guys, and that means I wanted to, I thought it'd be interesting on our recaps to just talk about different LGBTQ IA charities that are doing great work for that community, because that community right now needs all the support it can get, because it is fighting the good fight and trying to help people. The whole community is just being hit with laws left, right, and center in the country. So, I want it, in the US, anyways, and so I wanted to highlight the Trevor Project. So, the Trevor Project was found in 1998 in West Hollywood, California, by James Lecesne.

Brad Crowell 13:20

Lecesne, I think, Lecesne.

Lesley Logan 13:21

Lecesne or you don't think it's Lecesne.

Brad Crowell 13:24

Actually, I think it's Lecesne.

Lesley Logan 13:25

Yeah, Lecesne.

Brad Crowell 13:26

Yeah, James.

Lesley Logan 13:31

Randy Stone, creators of the film Trevor. The Trevor Project is an American non-profit organization, is leading national organization providing crisis intervention, suicide prevention services to LGBTQ young people aged 13 to 24 That's a really, really tough at age, but you know it's really important that they have support. The organization offers a confidential telephone helpline, the Traverse Space Forum, and the educational programs, while reporting increase revenues and dedicating 80% of its budgets to programs. That's huge for a big charity, as them 80% to go like that. This is what we're looking at when we're looking at charities, you know. It has faced criticism regarding its promotion of gender ideology and allegations of mismanagement. So, okay, no, it's perfect, but I do, I do, I've heard of the project with different groups of different podcasts talking about how it can be helpful, and so, you know, I definitely hope it hope it helps people who are listening, who have friends whose kids or loved ones who need this help. Brad, why don't you tell what you liked about their website?

Brad Crowell 14:28

Yeah, well, if you want to support them, go to their website, thetrevorproject.org thetrevorproject.org and I was looking at their website and learning a little more about them, and a pop-up happened, and it said, hey, if you need a quick exit from our website, you can just hit the escape key three times, and I was like, what, I'm really interested about this, so I tried it, you know, 123, bam, it closed the tab that I was on with The Trevor Project, and it opened Google, and so if you are looking for support from the Trevor Trevor Project, and you're concerned about someone barging in on you, you know, or you don't want to share that information with the people that you might live with or be around, what an amazing way for them to think ahead, and I mean it's pretty awesome.

Lesley Logan 15:18

Speaking of The Pit, there was this one episode about human trafficking, and they were giving this girl a pen before they gave her the pen, because they thought the person that she was with was trafficking her. They opened up the pen to show her that on the in the ink part is the phone number, so the pen just looks like this like stupid pharmaceutical pen, but when you open it up, it actually had a helpline. And so I just think that, like, I love that groups are getting really creative with how can they actually help people, because just putting, you know, a flyer in a place, like, here you go, it's like no one can take that.

Brad Crowell 15:51

Well, it's like it's like in, in the when we fly around the world, and we're in the airports, there's not just signs everywhere there, but they are there. Are hidden posters on the inside of the bathroom stalls that are about trafficking, and it says, hey, and it's in like multiple languages, like, like half a dozen languages. It's like, if you are being trafficked, here's the helpline, how to get support right now.

Lesley Logan 16:16

Yeah.

Brad Crowell 16:17

And you can call a number if you have access to a phone, of course.

Lesley Logan 16:19

Oh my gosh, there was a bar in Miami that's like all these bars, they have, if you order an angel drink, they call it the drink, it's called angel, like, oh, I'd like to order the angel shot, then that tells the waiter that you feel unsafe with the date that you're on, and they will help you know you get out of that situation, which is amazing, like, they like, I don't know how they're helping, like maybe they call you a ride or something like that, something like that. I don't quote quote me, but I know the word was like angel, I guess. If the men find out what the word is for, you know, I don't, that's probably not so. The street was probably only in the women's restrooms, but yeah.

Brad Crowell 16:53

The angel shot, it's a coded phrase used to signal bar staff that you feel unsafe and need help, such as a bad date.

Lesley Logan 16:59

So, going back to the Trevor Project, you know, there's different things you can do, like if you want to do things more local to you, we, whenever we order, whenever you come to a retreat at our house, if you're in eLevate, things like that, we actually order from Bronze Cafe, and proceeds from their restaurant go to support the mental health of LGBTQ community in Las Vegas, so it's June is Pride Month, so you're gonna find all these different things around where you are that are gonna help people in this community, obviously, try to do it all year long, because they need it, but I just think that, like, it's a real shame that this group of people is being marginalized and made the reason why people's lives are so difficult. The trans community specifically, they're 2% of the population, and the actual 2% that is ruining people's lives across the world are the billionaires, those are the welfare people, those are the people who, like, I shared a post was showing, like, Amazon pays like 1.87% in taxes or something like that, it's like something stupid, Alphabet actually pays 10% that shocked me, I was like, they're not getting the best deal, like, so, so, anyways, if we all got together and supported people who are different than us and actually took out the small amount of people who are getting rich off of us, there will be a much different place. And then this group of people would actually get to live with human rights like the rest of us get to have. So, anyways.

Brad Crowell 18:15

I just wanted to quickly check that stat. In the US, roughly one out of 10 identifies as LGBTQ as of 2024.

Lesley Logan 18:23

Right, but trans is 2%

Brad Crowell 18:25

Trans, trans, yeah, okay.

Lesley Logan 18:26

Yes, but yeah. What I understand, you know, I know we're smart supposed to spend a lot of time on this, but the internet really pisses me off when these men are like, I'm not gonna have a gay kid.

Brad Crowell 18:35

Right, like it's there choice.

Lesley Logan 18:36

I shared this thing with you, this guy got this person to like, like, like, he's like, "Oh no, you, you choose to be gay. It's like, "Oh, okay, we'll be gay right now. He's like, "Be gay right now. He's like, "Oh no. He's like, "He's like, he's like, 'Well, you said you could choose, you choose to be gay, so be gay right now.' So the guy's like, "Okay, I choose to be attracted to you right now. He's like, "Yeah, well, I'm not gay, I can never choose to be gay, but you, you didn't.

Brad Crowell 18:59

He just chose to be gay. He's like I'm only gay for like 10 seconds.

Lesley Logan 19:02

Yeah, well, you're gay, so actually you're bisexual. It was such, was so well articulate, was so great. At any rate, it just shows that a lot of people have idiocies.

Brad Crowell 19:13

Ridiculous.

Lesley Logan 19:13

Fears, all this different stuff. And I think, like, the reality is that we have to make sure that children today, especially this group of people have love, support, and community, know that they are there's nothing wrong with them.

Brad Crowell 19:24

Yeah.

Lesley Logan 19:25

You know.

Brad Crowell 19:26

Yeah. So.

Lesley Logan 19:26

I could never imagine, I was bullied in school for having a big nose, for having big lips, for being poor, for my clothes being not like, I could never imagine, because when you're bullied for that, it changes, they change people, they get to somebody else, it changes all the time. To be bullied for who you're attracted to or how you identify? Holy fuck, that is relentless. That'd be non-stop. Anyways. Okay, well, we'll be right back.

Brad Crowell 19:56

Thanks for sticking with us here.

Lesley Logan 20:00

thetrevorproject.org, that was the link

Brad Crowell 20:00

Go to thetrevorproject.com yeah, all right.

Brad Crowell 20:03

So let's talk about Clare Solly. Clare is a New York City-based actress, singer, novelist, and creative multi-hyphenate. She has self-published three women's fiction novels, is on the board of two theater companies in New York City, and currently works a day job she genuinely enjoys. Clare is also pursuing a PhD in creative writing, adding another chapter to her already wide-ranging creative career. I did not know she was doing that.

Lesley Logan 20:32

Oh, she is. We're gonna call her Dr. Clare.

Brad Crowell 20:36

Dr. Sally.

Lesley Logan 20:37

I remember when she said, "I think I'm gonna do this. Do you think I'm crazy?" And I was like, "You're gonna do it anyways." That's when you know you have a real friend. It doesn't matter, I know you're gonna do it anyways. It doesn't matter. All right.

Brad Crowell 20:54

Yeah. So, like I said, the two of you just beat off of each other. So, what was one of the one of the things that you loved, that she said.

Lesley Logan 21:02

Oh my god, we got through so much, I think. I feel like, by the way, it's exiting, and it's a very, I find out of all the podcasts we've done, it's not just a theory, like she gave actual tangible things throughout the whole pod.

Brad Crowell 21:17

Yeah, it was great.

Lesley Logan 21:18

And it made me realize that we do the "Be It" action items, because in case someone's a little ethereal or a little esoteric, I wanted you to have tangible things to do.

Brad Crowell 21:25

That's very true. That's why.

Lesley Logan 21:26

That's why it exists, because of the woo-woo people are just like, get to know yourself, love everyone, and I wanted, like, okay, well, what do I do today? But this whole episode is like that. So she was talking about employer-employee relationships, so that's really what this is. We know not everybody works for someone else, so, but this is a great episode to present to your friend who's probably struggling with their boss, and sometimes you end up in one, right? Like, I have a girlfriend who's been an entrepreneur for decades, and now she's an employee again. So, she said the employer-employee relation does not inherently require a lifelong debt, and I think a lot of people who listen to this podcast, maybe not young kids today, because they've just seen it happen like they don't, they've not even, well, what they're saying is that the jobs don't even exist when they get older, but for those elder millennials and Gen X, like, where our parents had the same job forever. So, like.

Brad Crowell 22:11

My dad just retired from 43 years at the same company.

Lesley Logan 22:14

And just, I know we, I think we had it on the pod already, but how many people have retired since that person took over the job?

Brad Crowell 22:20

When my dad retired, he asked the exit interview HR lady, "Hey, how many people have you had this interview with?" And she said, "Since Covid, five."

Lesley Logan 22:34

Five

Brad Crowell 22:35

Yeah

Lesley Logan 22:35

Only five.

Brad Crowell 22:35

Only five.

Lesley Logan 22:36

Five in six years. So that's how many people are retiring, which means a lot of them are leaving. But it does not inherently require lifelong debt, and I think that's really important, because I think especially, the majority of our listeners are women, we tend to worry about.

Brad Crowell 22:51

I think we need to qualify that. What does lifelong debt mean in this context?

Lesley Logan 22:56

Okay. I'm going to just say your parents on their vacation were worried about when they should tell their bosses that they were retiring, and I was like, "You don't," because somebody had left, and I was like, "You don't owe them that information, you're on vacation right now, you shouldn't even know that that person left." I was literally arguing with them, I'm like, "Why would you even go, 'Oh, I'm gonna retire too, so look for two people'? No, not your responsibility. It's their responsibility to be thinking about if people leave," and so that's what I would say.

Brad Crowell 23:25

Yeah, I mean, lifelong debt, I would say, is just your entire life orients around the company that you work for. And I know how I operate, and that would be to pour myself into this company, whatever company that I'm working for.

Lesley Logan 23:41

I did that for every company I worked for, I just kept being promoted because I poured so hard. They're like this girl doing so much, we should give her this next job.

Brad Crowell 23:47

Yeah, and so, the employer-employee relationship does not inherently require a lifelong debt, meaning that, of course, when you're working for someone, do everything that's part of your role, but you don't owe them your life, right?

Lesley Logan 24:04

Yeah, right. We were in Paris for four days. Let me tell you right now, they enjoy their life, they go to work. And our friend of ours who lives there, she's like, "Oh, it would be rude to eat at your desk, you literally have to eat in the lunch cafeteria."

Brad Crowell 24:20

She works from home, and she goes into the office to have lunch with the group.

Lesley Logan 24:24

Yeah, that's not even on her team, they're just the people of that office that she's at, because it's like rude to not be part of it. And she's like, "Yeah, you have a full hour-long lunch, and no matter what you've got going on, you sit there and you enjoy it." People really have a life, and I think there is a way to give 100% at work and then have a life, and I think that's a balance we're missing if you're in the States. If you're outside of the States, we travel a lot, I see you, you're doing a great job, you are living your life. But so let's go back to one thing she said, so she explained you don't actually owe the company anything, like, telling them where you're going.

Brad Crowell 25:06

She was talking about actually, in this case, quitting, and you know, if they asked you like, "Well, where are you going to go work next?" Like, you don't need to tell them that.

Lesley Logan 25:13

You don't actually have to, it's not a thing. And so, in fact, somebody asked L on demand, our agency member, because they were making a plan to leave, and they're like, "Well, how do I, do I tell them what I'm doing?" And she wrote, "No, you can just say, 'Thank you so much. As of this date, I'm no longer available for this role. I am still available and excited to do this part of my job.'" Because you actually don't need to tell them that you're gonna go run your own thing, especially like it's not, we tend to feel like we have to give them an excuse or a reason. It can just be that you're done. Done is a reason. Yeah, so it's your business.

Lesley Logan 25:50

She also said you can be fully transparent about your feelings, but leaving is—it's when you're—it's not required. You can be, but you don't have to be. It's not required. So, the best policy she said is to just walk in and say, "I'm so sorry, I found X, Y, or Z," or "I found another job," and then keep it short and sweet. And I would say the shorter and sweeter the better, and try to do it in a succinct way so they're not the enemy and you're off to greener pastures. You never know if you have to come back.

Brad Crowell 26:22

You guys were talking even about the, "Oh, they're paying me more," or whatever. Like, "This other company offered me this role, and they're offering me more money." But you don't even need to say anything like that, because that would then open up the conversation with the current company of, like, "Oh, well, we could pay you more." What if you actually just wanted to leave, you know? So you don't need to be building in an excuse. You can just say, "Hey, you know, I have to move on." You can give an excuse, but you don't need to.

Brad Crowell 26:53

I had a very difficult time leaving my job because my old boss liked to sue people, and so I needed to come up with a reason that was acceptable so that he didn't think that I was going to go try to compete with him. Because if that happened, he was going to sue, he sues everybody. So I told him that I was going to focus on my family, and I left that open-ended.

Lesley Logan 27:18

You know what, my last—the job that I left, they were litigious-ish because if certain trainers took clients, because they had a non-compete, which is not enforceable, and the non-solicitation as well, which means you couldn't solicit. But I was so afraid that they would think I was soliciting that I also said, "I'm focusing, my husband, you know, I don't need to work this much anymore." I just wanted them, it wasn't their business, and I didn't want them to be looking for something, you know. And we're still friendly, I still talk to everybody, one of my bosses there, like, it's so great. So it doesn't have to be a big deal. I think the gist of that topic is like you can literally, in two sentences or less, exit given the information that they need to process the paycheck and get to your next thing.

Brad Crowell 28:08

Yeah, and when I was listening through the whole thing, I liked the idea of being gracious with the exit—like graceful, meaning short, succinct, and clear. And that's what Claire was talking about when exiting not on your terms, basically meaning you're fired. She said if you really want to hand-grenade things, you can, but it's a small world. The industries we all work in are small. Everyone knows everyone. If you have a tumultuous exit, word will get around, right? She said while being fired is definitely an ego stab in your heart, it is crucial to remain polite because the professional world is very small, even if the human instinct is to internalize blame. And what we will do effectively, because it's the human instinct, is internalize the blame. "What did I do wrong?" You know, and we keep reviewing it over and over again in our own minds, picking on ourselves effectively. She said, "Hey, let's turn it around to a positive instead of sitting there picking yourself apart. Maybe you can go and take this new time and learn a new skill." Alternatively, you can evaluate your peers by asking yourself, like, "What are the skills that I have? What can I add to my resume that makes me more excitable as a hire for the future?" So, really shifting back to working to put yourself back out there.

Lesley Logan 29:34

Yeah, I think, going back a couple episodes ago, you have to feel your feelings. It's important to grieve that it's a loss, like even if you leave on your own terms, it's still a closure of something, so definitely do that.

Brad Crowell 29:48

I always think about people who are almost arrogant, and I think in a situation like this, how lucky are they that they can look at someone firing them and go, "Well, it's your fucking loss, because I'm awesome." You know what I mean? Imagine that perspective versus, "Oh my god, what did I do wrong? Why are you firing me? It's my fault, I fucked up somewhere, I'm not even sure what I did wrong." Those are the two extremes. Maybe we can land in the middle and do ourselves a kindness and not beat ourselves up over it. Because I had to fire someone, and was this person perfect at their job? No. Were they coachable and teachable, and did we actually enjoy having them on the team? Yes. And ultimately, it wasn't because they fucked up a spreadsheet or a document that I had to fire them; I had to fire them because our company couldn't sustain paying them at the time, this many years ago, right? And so it was a shame and not fun, right? So it had nothing to do with her, and I wrote a glowing review.

Lesley Logan 30:56

Yeah, no, and for the most part, especially if you're a boss listening to this, most people know, if you do it right and you're coaching correctly, people know that their job is not safe. So, in California, I have to write you up at least three times, because the employers' HR, when you let go of someone, they want to be like, "Here are the instances, here's what the thing was that you were supposed to do."

Brad Crowell 31:21

Meaning they should be seeing it coming. "I've got two write-ups already, I know."

Lesley Logan 31:25

Like, "Yeah, I'm in the hot seat," you know. And so now, just because you have three doesn't mean you're getting fired—like maybe they happen over 10 years, you know? One of them you fix, whatever. But especially if they're happening in a row, they're coming for it, they're looking for things to come at you with. So you should be watching for that.

Lesley Logan 31:42

But you should also like—if I'm consistently having to remind you how to do something, or I'm questioning, like, if there's these things that you're being coached on in your job, and it's like, "Wow, you've been here a year, and we're still working on this" if you're a boss, they should not be blindsided by it if it has to do with the way that they're doing their job, because they're not mind readers. You actually have to tell them if they're doing their job well or not, and if they're not doing their job well, you have to tell them how to do it well to give them that opportunity. And if you don't do that, then they're gonna be blindsided. But if you're constantly re-coaching them on their job and bringing up, like, hey, even if you don't write them up, "Hey, this is the third time we've had to go over this, what's going on here?" Hopefully they're aware.

Lesley Logan 32:22

Now, some people are dense and they don't get it. I fired people who yelled at me and all these different things—not like "my loss," but like, "How dare you," right? And I remember going, "You didn't see this coming, dude? This is our third write-up. You're not on time for your clients. What do you want me to do? You're not on time, you've not been on time multiple times."

Brad Crowell 32:44

Yeah.

Lesley Logan 32:45

This is on you.

Brad Crowell 32:46

Yeah, exactly.

Lesley Logan 32:47

If he had been taking the bus, I would have been like, "Okay, we got to find a new bus route, we got to find a new shift." Nope, this is all on him driving, you know. So, I think for the most, it doesn't always happen that way, but that's always my ideal goal, is like people know.

Brad Crowell 33:01

I had someone try to write me up one time, and I told them that I would not sign the paperwork

Lesley Logan 33:05

You, you also don't have to sign.

Brad Crowell 33:07

And I said, "I disagree with you 100%. I'm happy to talk to your boss about all of this, because I will not sign this."

Lesley Logan 33:13

You don't have to sign, they still, you still got it, but you don't have to sign if you don't agree with it. That's true. Yeah, that's fine. It's all combo. Anyways, this is like, thank fucking God I'm not in an office. Jesus. Okay, hold on. She said more great things about exiting.

Brad Crowell 33:29

Yes. Well, stick, stick around really quick. We'll be, we will be right back.

Brad Crowell 33:34

All right, welcome back. So, let's talk about those "Be It" action items. If you're new here and you're like, "What the hell is that?" "Be It" is the Be It Till You See It podcast acronym, what bold, executable, intrinsic, or targeted action items can we take away from your convo? Claire said, "Hey, give yourself space." Okay, she explicitly warns against immediately jumping back into work after making an exit, whether you made it or they made it. She stated, "Make sure you give yourself a week or two off between jobs, because in any capacity, you have to decompress. It's just good for your mental state." She cautions against skipping this decompression phase, because when you immediately jump back into the next thing, you might actually already be angry or sad or frustrated, or whatever. She said she has rage-updated her resume before, and it just never works out very well.

Lesley Logan 34:29

Sounds like if you get dumped, and then you go and do your Tinder or Hinge profile, it probably isn't gonna be as great as if you just waited a moment to be like, "Wow, that person wasn't so great for me. Let me.

Brad Crowell 34:42

Yeah, don't rage-update your resume, it's hilarious. What about you? What was your big takeaway?

Lesley Logan 34:45

II mean, personally, I never want to have to update a resume like that. I never want to do.

Brad Crowell 34:50

I know we've had to update a resume to submit for some things for the business, and we're like, "Where is our resume? What did we.

Lesley Logan 34:59

Now, Lex's job is like every so many months, go—because eventually, how long is the resume, you know? How many pages? Because I'm not vying for a job, but loans and stuff want things like that. Anyways, she said take a look at yourself and where you are, look at where you can improve and create an exit strategy. So I like this, because you might not like the job that you're at, you might be frustrated with where it's at, but this kind of is like taking a little bit of radical responsibility—like, where can I improve so that when I find the next place, I'm already a better person for it at the next job, you know? And that allows you to create an exit strategy as well. And I think this is kind of like, you know, if in anything you're wanting to leave, there's a reason you want to leave, and some of it's the situation, and some of it is ownership of how you could be a better person given the new situation, right? She compares this action to having an emergency strategy for a house fire, so you already know where your exits are, and I like that, right?

Brad Crowell 36:01

She has some great tips, you know, especially if you know you're leaving and you had already taken things home, slowly start to bring them back to the office, not all at once, and vice versa. If you have things at the office, you could slowly start to take them home again, not all at once, because you're not trying to make your office look empty, but just practical stuff. Pretty cool.

Lesley Logan 36:21

Because you never—I mean, even if you think you know your employers the most, like when I worked in, when I ran retail shops, if you gave us a two-week notice, our goal was to see how quickly we can get you a paycheck and end your shift before two weeks in your job, because it was an at-will state, so we could do that. So you put the two weeks in because then you get the better review, like, "Oh, they left and they gave notice," and all these different things, but especially in Pilates and in retail, you have clients, you have customers, so the longer you're there, the longer you can take client phone numbers, emails, different things. Like, we're protecting stuff, so we would just be like, "Out. Bye."

Brad Crowell 37:02

Yeah, I think notoriously Netflix is like crazy. If you go in and you quit, before you get back to your desk, you're locked out of every, yeah.

Lesley Logan 37:12

Yeah, no, I think it's even in their handbook of like what happens. Keith Olbermann is the one who—it's so funny because he's like, "I was on—they let me be on the air for three months, I could say whatever I wanted." But I do—you never—you just don't know how people are going to react to exits, so make sure that you have prepared well for the exit that you are in control of so that if they do decide, especially if you're an hourly employee or something like that, that they're changing it, you're not needing that money as the in-between, you know. Anyways, well, love it. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 37:53

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 37:54

Thanks, Clare, for being our Be It Babe, ready to jump in. She'll be back because we'll have her at an interview.

Brad Crowell 38:00

The Boomerang Buddy.

Lesley Logan 38:01

Oh, I'm interviewing the person in two days, I better finish that book. I'm interviewing a really great doctor, and she's like, "I want to be in the Be It Book Club, and I want to be the recap person." So, Brad, you're unfortunately,unless you want to, you can join us for the recap if you want.

Brad Crowell 38:19

It's fun. I love it.

Lesley Logan 38:20

Yeah, all right, guy, go Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 38:23

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 38:24

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 39:07

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 39:12

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 39:16

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 39:23

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 39:26

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

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692. The Truth About Quitting Without Guilt