Lesley and Brad recap key insights from physical therapist Dr. Jen Fraboni (@docjenfit), co-host of The Optimal Body Podcast. Known for helping people move with less pain and more confidence, Dr. Jen redefines pain as an “alarm,” not a stop sign—your body’s way of asking for better care and awareness. Lesley and Brad unpack her practical strategies for building stability before flexibility, tuning in before you train, and aging with strength and ease.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co.

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In this episode you will learn about:

How Lesley’s pain-as-alarm concept to daily self-check habits.
Brad overcomes foot pain by staying active instead of stopping.
How Lesley’s yoga experience illustrated “stability before flexibility”
The importance of reflection and consistency when pain shows up unexpectedly.
How building strength supports graceful aging and confidence in movement.

Episode References/Links:

OPC Winter Tour - https://opc.me/tour0
Pilates Journal Expo - https://xxll.co/pilatesjournal
Cambodia Retreat Waitlist - https://crowsnestretreats.com/waitlist
Agency Mini - https://prfit.biz/mini
Contrology Pilates Conference in Poland - https://xxll.co/poland
Contrology Pilates Conference in Brussels - https://xxll.co/brussels
Submit your wins or questions - https://beitpod.com/questions
Dr. Jen Fraboni's Website - https://jen.health
The Optimal Body Podcast - https://www.docjenfit.com/podcast
Dr. Jen Fraboni's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/docjenfit
Episode 589: Brad Bizjack - https://beitpod.com/ep589

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Resources:

Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-g
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Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/
Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/
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Profitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/

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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00

When we feel pain, really doing some sort of, creating some sort of, like, okay, hold on, what's my sleep like, what's my intake like, what's my fuel like, have I been consistent? You know, just do some reflection.

Lesley Logan 0:12

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:51

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the empowering convo I had with Jen Fraboni in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, you've missed out on an incredible interview with DocJenFit. That's her Instagram handle or her handle everywhere. So many of you love her, know her, and this was a really cool, I thought, very vulnerable convo as well. She shared a lot about going on her life, how she handles things. I love when people are like, just a human and so it's gonna be really good. So I can't wait to recap it, but before we do that, today is November 20th 2025, and we have two days to celebrate. And to be honest, there was like seven, so we could have chosen. There was a few that I was like, well, I don't use less, so we can't use use less day, because I'm so not participating. But there's a couple others, but we're going to focus on two of them. One is the Great American Smokeout. The American Cancer Society sponsors a Great American Smokeout on the third Thursday of November annually, challenging smokers to give up cigarettes for 24 hours. If you or a loved one smoke cigarettes, consider joining the movement and take the first step towards quitting cigarettes forever. How? Let's both try to do something tough for a day. I'll give up either coffee, sugar, social media.

Brad Crowell 2:10

You're you are allowed to pitch this to them.

Lesley Logan 2:13

Oh, this is how you're gonna pitch it.

Brad Crowell 2:14

Yeah. This is how you're gonna pitch this to them.

Lesley Logan 2:15

This is how you're gonna pitch it. So you're gonna, you, if you're a non-smoker, if you're a smoker, then you can tell another smoker, you guys could do it together. But if you're a non-smoker, asking a smoker, then you're gonna say, I'm gonna give up something they know. You're gonna have a hard time giving up for 24 hours.

Brad Crowell 2:30

Like, maybe it's Instagram, maybe it's chocolate, could be sugar.

Lesley Logan 2:35

Coffee, you know something like that and you give up smoking, think of it as a reset, not a rule. So.

Brad Crowell 2:43

And that's what you can also tell them, It's a reset, not a rule.

Lesley Logan 2:45

Well, Brad, can we, like, let's how hard, can we talk about it?

Brad Crowell 2:50

We can certainly talk about it.

Lesley Logan 2:51

Okay, you quit smoking.

Brad Crowell 2:53

I did quit smoking.

Lesley Logan 2:54

If he had been a smoker when we met, it would have not we would not be married 10 years.

Brad Crowell 2:58

It's true.

Lesley Logan 2:59

Because we would not have gone on a date.

Brad Crowell 3:00

Yeah. I mean, it's.

Lesley Logan 3:02

My grandfather was a smoker.

Brad Crowell 3:04

It doesn't smell good.

Lesley Logan 3:05

Yeah. So I have had two grandfathers who are massive smokers, one who lost a lung to smoking, and another one who had multiple heart problems, and the heart doctor refused to operate on him unless he quit smoking. So I, like, this is a big like, personal thing, because I lost family members to smoking. But I know it's not easy. So Brad.

Brad Crowell 3:26

Yeah, I mean, I've told this story before, so it was the decision to smoke or to quit smoking was, for me, it was made emotionally, which is what made it easy. The decision to stop, to stay with that initial decision was actually quite challenging, you know, because of the addiction, because of nicotine, but because I wanted to sing more than I wanted to smoke, that was the emotional decision. It was like, oh my god, this is a very I just have to stop, like, I can't, I can't be on stage and not be able to sing. So that I think that was hard, because I had to hit a wall in order for that decision to become emotional and then for it to actually happen in my life. But okay, great. That's step one. Then step two is consistently not smoking when I used to smoke. So in the car with the window down, or I don't remember, you know, walking out of my apartment complex, there was a there was, like, part of my routine, you know, and doing those things, like continuing to do life, you're going to run back into those instances where you used to do the habit and would always make me think, this is what I would normally pull out a cigarette. And so that was, that was a constant battle for, honestly, for just a few weeks.

Lesley Logan 4:56

Well, it's interesting, because so in a couple of weeks, we have a habit series starting and in one of the episodes, I talked about how to unravel a habit. And for smoking, like all we can be completely honest, there is an addictive element to it, in that they made it addictive. So you have a habit, you smoke when you're in traffic. My old roommate, she would she when she quit smoking was the hardest thing, because she's like, Lesley, I'm in traffic for 45 minutes, and I used to just sit there and smoke, and now I am not. So she had lollipops and teas and coffees because she needed something to do in the car. She actually had, like, the patches like, well, that helps you quit. So she's like, I don't even have the craving to smoke. I have the habit. So I will talk about how to unravel a habit in that series in December, so make sure you're paying attention. Okay, the other day, this is really important to Brad and I that we wanted to bring it up. (inaudible)

Brad Crowell 5:47

Second thing we wanted to remember today.

Lesley Logan 5:50

Yes. So it's Transgender Day of Remembrance. For generations, the transgender population has suffered various forms of abuse and even death for or murder, so we'll call it that, for challenging the views, notions and stereotypes around male and female identity. Every year, we set aside today as Transgender Day of Remembrance. This holiday is meant to honor, commemorate and memorialize those who face discrimination and stigma on a daily basis across this nation. This holiday is also meant to advocate for transgenders people's rights, as well as focus on the persistent struggles they face in their everyday lives and how others can share their love, support and hope. If you listen to this podcast and you have a fucking problem with transgenders, I am just going to be on, I need you to explore why. These are just people. They're just people, and they've been around forever. And I bring it, I bring it up in one of the FYF is coming up about like, how in the indigenous cultures, they actually have people, they already had words for this. This is something. It's actually a fucking cool thing. Like you have the ability to see the world the way they see it through both lenses. It's a powerful thing. And I fucking clearly I'm pissed about it, but I get so annoyed. We flew on a plane the other day, and no one has a problem using a toilet on a plane, but all of a sudden they have a fucking problem of sharing a bathroom with another person of a different gender, and it's like, what are we talking about here? You just shared a bathroom. So I don't understand when they make neutral bathrooms, how people get pissed about that. I also just listened to this one thing. If I could find the reel I'll send it to the team to link it. If you don't see the link below, it's because I couldn't find it. But this person is is explaining how it's sort of the safety of women to in the bathrooms, of why they want people using the bathrooms of their own, like birth certificate, right? And this one person is a trans man. He goes, so what you're actually saying is that men are a danger to women and you don't want them in their bathrooms. So that's the problem. We should solve that problem. We shouldn't be policing genitals. So I just get really upset because it's just bothersome to me. Why do we why do we care so much we have healthcare issues in this country. We have poverty issue. We have children who don't have enough food.

Brad Crowell 8:06

We have food issues, yeah.

Lesley Logan 8:07

The higher percentage of people.

Brad Crowell 8:09

We have water issues. Did you know, I don't remember what the number is, but like, (inaudible) I think, I think it was Jackson, Mississippi, like, they don't have running water in in, like, many parts of the city. I don't know what the the numbers are, but like, that was a thing in a couple years ago.

Lesley Logan 8:24

Yes, no, there's a higher percentage of people who are listening to this show that know someone who's homeless, who is a pover in poverty, who has food. What do you call it? Like a food uncertainty? Then then know of someone who's transgendered and so why? Like, what are we doing? So I'm just pissed about it. I'm just over it. I'm over people being so uptight and like that they're a threat to who you are. You know, it goes to that whole thing where it's like, if you don't like abortions, don't get one. If you don't like gay marriage, if somebody of your same sex asks you to marry them, don't say yes. Like, you don't have to do any of these things. You don't have to be trans like this is I just get annoyed. I'm pissed. Anyways, so today is the day to remember the people who have been fighting to exist as they feel like they should exist, and we should do what we can to honor those people. And if you don't know anyone, maybe consider looking at a community service organization in your area that you could donate to if you are listening from Las Vegas, when you buy food from the Bronze Cafe, their proceeds, part of their proceeds go to the LGBTQ community for mental health. So it's really, really cool. We use their restaurant for all of our retreats here in Las Vegas. We can help support that.

Brad Crowell 9:37

And they have a second location at the.

Lesley Logan 9:43

Oh Brad's so excited.

Brad Crowell 9:45

The conservation preserve, the Springs Preserve here, which has has a massive cactus garden. So go to the cactus garden. Go eat lunch, and you'll be also helping support (inaudible) the transgender community here.

Lesley Logan 9:58

Yeah, when you come visit Las Vegas, you should go to Springs Preserves, and then you can go to Bronze Cafe. Okay, cool stuff coming up now. So here we go.

Brad Crowell 10:06

All right, so here's what we got coming up on the docket, actually, next week, or Yyeah, literally, in a few days, is the Black Friday Cyber Monday coming up for you've probably already been inundated with everything that's been crazy, but for us, we're going to do it actually, during the old school Black Friday Cyber, Cyber Monday is even new. Black Friday, so it's the 26th to the first of December for OPC only, y'all so check your email for more details, starting yesterday. So just go check your emails if you haven't already, we've got an offer for you with OPC.

Lesley Logan 10:37

If you didn't get an email, it's because you have not signed up for our emails, or you unsubscribed from us, and we don't take that personally. You could just resubscribe. But yeah, the dates will be November 26th December 1st.

Brad Crowell 10:47

If you're wondering what it is and you didn't get the email, just DM us and we can send you the right place.

Lesley Logan 10:52

We're really excited about this sale, and it's the one time of the year we do it, so take advantage. Don't ask us on December 2nd for it. It's not how it works. It's actually a lot of work.

Brad Crowell 11:01

Speaking of December, we're gonna be on the road again for our winter tour for OPC, and the actual dates we're gonna get, it's like starting on the seventh or sixth.

Lesley Logan 11:11

No, it's like the fifth, I think it's the fifth in Colorado Springs, and it ends on.

Brad Crowell 11:15

Oh, yeah, we gotta drive there, though, so we leave.

Lesley Logan 11:18

We leave earlier than it starts. We come home the day that it ends so but it's like, it's like, December 5th through the January 6th or January 7th.

Brad Crowell 11:28

And we do come home the day that ends.

Lesley Logan 11:30

I, yeah, I know that we sound like when it comes to this tour that we're like, not organized. The last time we recorded, we had no idea where we're going. And now we do, and it's huge. The whole tour is listed, 23 cities.

Brad Crowell 11:42

Yeah, 23.

Lesley Logan 11:43

Colorado Springs.

Brad Crowell 11:45

23 public events.

Lesley Logan 11:46

St Louis.

Brad Crowell 11:47

Yeah, the fifth, the first the first event is on December 5 in Colorado Springs, then we go to Fayetteville.

Lesley Logan 11:54

Oh, Fayetteville. Oh, I'm so sorry. How could I skip Arkansas.

Brad Crowell 11:57

Then St Louis on the 7th.

Lesley Logan 11:58

Then St Louis, then Detroit, then Columbus.

Brad Crowell 12:01

No, then Lexington.

Lesley Logan 12:03

I'm going to Lexington.

Brad Crowell 12:04

You're going to Lexington.

Lesley Logan 12:04

Oh, I am going to Lexington, but I'm going in that order.

Brad Crowell 12:06

Then you're going to Columbus, then you're going to Detroit.

Lesley Logan 12:09

What? How does the map work? Am I going like zigzag?

Brad Crowell 12:14

Believe it or not, they're almost in line. Yeah, they're, they are.

Brad Crowell 12:18

I don't understand the middle. I'm so sorry. Okay, then we go to Pittsburgh.

Lesley Logan 12:22

Okay, Pittsburgh. Then we go to.

Brad Crowell 12:25

Rochester

Lesley Logan 12:26

Rochester

Brad Crowell 12:27

New York

Lesley Logan 12:27

Oh, yeah, we're going to, do you say Rochester or you go Rochester. How do you say it?

Brad Crowell 12:31

Rochester

Lesley Logan 12:32

Rochester

Brad Crowell 12:33

Rochester, New York. And then we go to Boston, Cape Cod, Hartford, Connecticut. That's a new one for us. Hershey, Pennsylvania. We're coming back Rehoboth Beach.

Lesley Logan 12:42

That's a new one for us.

Brad Crowell 12:43

That's new, to Delaware, that'll be just after Christmas, and then we have Washington, DC, Virginia Beach, Charlotte, North Carolina. That's new for us. We've got Delray. This is Florida. We're gonna be hoofing it from North Carolina all the way down to Delray, Florida. This is new.

Lesley Logan 12:59

Christmas Eve, Del Rey.

Brad Crowell 13:01

Nope, New Year's Eve Del Rey. On a roll, here.

Lesley Logan 13:07

You guys Del Rey is near Fort Lauderdale, Hollywood, Florida, correct?

Brad Crowell 13:11

Yeah. It's just north of Fort Lauderdale, I think.

Lesley Logan 13:14

So our Miami stop has moved up a little bit because most of you are driving from that area anyway, so you're welcome. And then we do New Year's Day with our Pilates crew that's in Tampa.

Brad Crowell 13:26

Yes.

Lesley Logan 13:26

And then we go to Pensacola.

Brad Crowell 13:28

Yes. Then New Orleans.

Lesley Logan 13:30

New Orleans, and then Houston.

Brad Crowell 13:31

Then, Houston.

Lesley Logan 13:32

Houston. We haven't been to Houston in years.

Brad Crowell 13:34

Yeah, it's been quite a few years for us to be in Houston. That'll be on January 4th and then fifth in Austin, and then Phoenix, we're coming to you on the seventh.

Lesley Logan 13:42

Yeah. So get your tickets at opc.me/events, by the way.

Brad Crowell 13:46

Nope, opc.me/tour, opc.me/tour.

Lesley Logan 13:50

There's two links. Okay, sorry, opc.me/tour is where you get your tickets. And at the time we're recording this, we're over 57% sold out. By the time you're hearing this, it's going to be way closer to sold out, because literally, nine events only have one spot right now in them. So go to opc.me/tour. Bring your friends. Also in December, we didn't do a Profitable Pilates Black Friday, Cyber Monday this year, because we want you to focus on, so save the date, December 26th or the 31st that will be on the Profitable Pilates newsletter list. So you have to be on that one. So for the Pilates instructors studio owners who want business flights, we're gonna have some special deal on Agency. We've never done it before. So make sure you're watching your inbox for that if you don't get those emails, just DM us and the team will help you out.

Brad Crowell 14:36

By the way, we're 55% sold out.

Lesley Logan 14:39

Oh, I know, but we're.

Brad Crowell 14:40

I just checked.

Lesley Logan 14:41

I know, but it hasn't been updated in 48 hours, so.

Brad Crowell 14:44

Maybe even more, so it might be closer to 60. Good stuff.

Lesley Logan 14:48

Yeah, I think so. And then after our tour, we come home for one day, kick off, eLevate, get our roots done, get our nails done by (inaudible), and then we go to Huntington Beach. Teach for the Pilates Journal Expo. This is a really cool two-day event, huge lineup of teachers. I don't I it's like a fucking party. So you should just go to xxll.co/pilatesjournal. So just two Xs guys, xxll.co/pilatesjournal. And then if you aren't already on the waitlist, you'll want to be on the waitlist because also, in January, we're going to open up the early bird registration for our Pilates retreat in Cambodia. This we just came back from.

Brad Crowell 15:28

Y'all it is going to be amazing.

Lesley Logan 15:30

I'm making so many mistakes, because we just got back and it was the coolest retreat of life. No offense to the people we've been on retreats with before, you were amazing.

Brad Crowell 15:37

Incredible retreat.

Lesley Logan 15:38

But like, if you have ever thought, oh, my god, they must get bored of this. We don't. We had the best fucking time. It was like we I just loved it. So I can't wait to take you,

Brad Crowell 15:48

Yeah, and I think, I think this year is going to be sorry, next year, So 2026, is going to be even better. And I know we've had a lot of interest already, but one of the things we're going to do differently, in January, we're going to have a call for everyone who's curious about this, the retreat, all the questions. We're going to have a couple of our past retreaters join us live, and we're going to have them just answer those questions. You can ask them directly. They can share with you their experience, you know, the process of getting there, like, did they feel safe? What kind of food was it? What kind of activities did they enjoy? All the things that you might be curious about. And I'm telling you, it is gonna next year, is gonna sell quickly. So, get yourself on the waitlist. Go to crowsnestretreats.com and we can't wait to see it all there.

Lesley Logan 16:34

Every group is got its own, different vibe. This group, we were like, rapping in the in the bus on the way to like, no one took a nap. Usually people are napping. We were like, half a native. So anyways, crowsnestretreats.com, crowsnestretreats.com/waitlist get you on the waitlist. Okay, in February, that is when our Agency Mini is happening. That is our three day event. I don't know if we're doing a second one next year. We're going to try, but you know, we'll see. So you're going back to Agency Mini, you want to get on the waitlist for that if you want to make sure you don't miss the early bird discount, prfit.biz/mini holy fucking molly, there's a lot of events coming up. So Poland and Brussels, that is in March, you guys. And I mean, a lot of questions about, are you doing anything in Europe? Anything? This is it. We're going, we're like, literally not getting on a plane until March, and I don't have plans to get on a plane after March until Cambodia. So if you want to see me, you need to check out the Poland Controlology Pilates conference. xxll.co/poland and or Brussels, xxll.co/brussels, two events, different workshops to both events, you can you're welcome to come to both. Karen Frischmann is actually collabing on that with me and the host studios, so you get two amazing teachers for the price of a weekend. And it's pretty kind of it's pretty awesome. So different workshops, plus there's a day of privates and semi private classes. So you can also jump in and enjoy some workouts with us. You don't want to miss it, because I don't know when we're coming back. Okay? And then we're gonna leave that. Brad and I are gonna do a vacation.

Brad Crowell 18:08

What? Weird.

Lesley Logan 18:09

About nine, 10 days vacation in Europe, and then April after our vacation, we wrap up in April at P.O.T. London, and now it's official. Now if you've been hearing me say, I'm not allowed to tell you, I don't know if we're allowed to tell you, we can tell you I signed a contract. I don't I don't I don't know if there's a link out yet, but I'm sure there is. So just look at like, P.O.T. London from Balanced Body, and you'll find it. All right, oh my gosh, okay, should we let's get to this audience question, and we got to get to this amazing recap episode.

Brad Crowell 18:34

All right, so the audience question this week was from @audreyphipps1726, on YouTube. She, this is for the Pilates equipment for beginners video. She said, hey, what size is that Try Me Stability Ball. I would love to find one.

Lesley Logan 18:50

Yeah, so the triad ball that's.

Brad Crowell 18:53

I was wondering.

Lesley Logan 18:54

Audrey, it took me a second. I was like, try me. I'd have to Google this, because sometimes people go, hey, what do you think of this item? And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about, but I realize it's my accent. It's the triad ball, and I don't actually know the dimensions. It's a purple ball that you don't want to fill all the way up. It's smaller than a I guess it'd be like, volleyball size when it's filled up, but you want it to be a little squishy. And where did I get it. I think I went on Balanced Body. Let's see.

Brad Crowell 19:24

The OPTP triad ball nine and a half inches.

Lesley Logan 19:27

Is it purple?

Brad Crowell 19:28

Um, yeah, it's purple.

Lesley Logan 19:30

Yeah, the OPTP.

Brad Crowell 19:32

Yeah. OPTP triad ball nine and a half inches.

Lesley Logan 19:35

You can get it at like, Target.

Brad Crowell 19:37

Yeah, even at Walmart.

Lesley Logan 19:38

I'm not shopping at Target these days, but you can get on OPTP's website, they have a bunch. They have a huge website, lots of amazing stuff on TP actually, you'll kind of like, it's good products, good stuff. So if you have a question, you can text us at +13109055534, or submit it to beitpod.com/questions. You can also leave a win. And I love getting your wins, because I love helping people see like there's a celebration in everything. You know there's a reason to celebrate the whole every if you just watch the news and open up your phone, it fucking sucks. So you got to have a place where you know it's going to be some good news, and you might hear your win on a day you need to remind yourself that you had a fucking win.

Brad Crowell 20:17

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you are 100% right. Well, stick around. We'll be right back.

Brad Crowell 20:23

Okay, welcome back. Let's talk about Dr. Jen Fraboni. Dr. Jen Fraboni, also known as Doc Jen Fit, is a physical therapist passionate about helping people move more with less pain and more confidence. She is the founder of Jen.Health, a platform and app designed to make strength, mobility and recovery accessible for everyone. Alongside her husband, she cohosts The Optimal Body Podcast. Her work has also been featured nationally, including on Good Morning America and NBC, where she shared simple strategies to ease back pain during the pandemic. So we well, it was just a great conversation, by the way, nobody knows this, but I get to watch the the full interview call, right? And.

Lesley Logan 21:06

You watch it?

Brad Crowell 21:07

Yeah, watch every single one of them. That's how I do prep. Oh, I thought you just listened, nope, 100% of the time watching the interview. So the beginning of it was really fun because you were saying that, basically you were like, oh my gosh, this is how my day is gonna go today. I'm so excited to start today with this interview.

Lesley Logan 21:26

Well, because, because it was a Zoom call with Jen Fraboni. And I was like, it's Jen Fraboni. And then it was then she showed up, like, Oh my God. Like, I was like, I mean, I guess I could have looked up.

Brad Crowell 21:39

Doc Jen Fit.

Lesley Logan 21:40

I mean, I knew I was interviewing her at some point, but I just my brain didn't like keep her, keep her last name associated with her Instagram handle, but yeah, how fun is that? I don't know, maybe the team left in the outtakes. Yeah, it was so good.

Brad Crowell 21:53

Yeah. So you know what, what the two of you were digging into. I thought it was just really great talking about paying because I I related a lot to that, especially this past year, I've actually had a lot of pain with my my foot. So anyway, you know.

Lesley Logan 22:08

But well, that goes into, like, something like, what I liked that she addressed about pain was that, like, most of the time it's just an alarm. Especially if you didn't get an accident, like, and sometimes your pain is like, you're just sitting there, and all of a sudden something hurts in your body, and you're like, ah, this hurts. And I'm like, just sitting there, like, what are you talking about? So in that case, if it wasn't, like, you know, you fell down the stairs, you tripped across the street, you were in a car accident, if you have pain, it is your body going, Hey, hi. You're not taking good care of me, right? It's like, just trying to get your attention. And I just like, if we think of that as what it is, as opposed to, I have to stop doing everything that was associated with that, because this is what happens, right? People come to Pilates once a week. The goal is three to four times. Week four is better. That's the goal, right? But I have someone who'll come once a week, and they go, they'll see me the next week. Oh, last last week. My back hurt, so we need to be conscious of that. And it's like so there are six other days, plus the 23 hours of the day. I didn't see you. What did you do? How are you taking care of yourself? I'm not saying the Pilates doesn't didn't hurt you. What I am saying is more likely than not, it wasn't the Pilates, but the Pilates is the unique thing about your day, right? So it's, it's similar to, I have some stomach digestive issues, and I would go, Oh, I think I got gluten, or I must have had some dairy. When I found out that I'm also allergic to oats. And every fucking day I was having oat milk, right?. And I wasn't associating, like, any of the other boring food I was having all of the time, I was coming up with, like, this unique thing that could have happened, so I really like that.

Brad Crowell 23:53

We were just with our friend, and the next day he was like, I think I got glutened yesterday. It must have been that meal that we ate, you know? And I said, you know, I'm I'm also not feeling 100% and then I thought about the restaurant, which is we've eaten at 100 times. And I was like, what did we do differently? And he had the spiciest Margarita I think I've ever tasted, and I was loading on the hot sauce. I was like, You know what, man, I wonder. I mean, look, it's possible that you got glutened but they were, they specifically came out and told us that they made this gluten free. So I'd be surprised. Maybe there was some leftover, something (inadible) but also, like, the two of us ate something that was pretty off the path. I like to eat spicy stuff, but, like, we ate a lot of it.

Lesley Logan 24:39

His his his Margarita was almost undrinkable.

Lesley Logan 24:42

It was crazy. You diluted it twice.

Lesley Logan 24:44

And you know, I like a spicy mar I was like, I I think that was gonna provide a colonic, to be completely honest, anyways. But I just think, like, she gave some really great stuff, like she talked about her own personal experience, like she's got some back pain, and she's like, Oh, I've been sleeping less, I'm breastfeeding, I'm sitting more, and I'm not moving my body. So what can I do to be more conscious about the things that I need to give myself?

Brad Crowell 25:06

Yeah, I think, I think, with the, with the the idea that people coming into class and saying, Oh, well, last week, I was in pain afterwards, you know, the what she mentioned, which I thought was really obvious but needed to be heard. She said, you know, if you're in the gym lifting and you like, tweak your back, obviously you're going to say, well, I shouldn't do that again. No, no problem, of course. But that was probably not that was the moment that things were stressed to the point of ouch. But that wasn't the only moment. There are definitely other things leading up to that exact moment of when, when your body is, like, we're done trying to hold it together here, now you're in pain. And she said, so, so there's other movements that you're probably doing in your life that are, it's cumulative, right? It's, it's, it's adding up over time, and then bam, maybe the moment that it happened was in a class when you're probably doing something particular that you wouldn't be normally doing, like doing a headstand, or whatever it might be, you know, being on one leg, you know, the, the, but, that's probably not where it started.

Lesley Logan 26:16

I think we could all agree in this moment where we're not in pain, right? I hurt my knee doing a deadlift. When I hired my trainer, I said, Yeah, I've been dead lifting a lot lighter because it doesn't bother my knee. But the actual thing that's bothering my knee is the fact that I had weak inner thighs and hamstrings compared to my quads, and then the way my gait is on that leg, that's why my knee hurt. It just so happened that I felt the pain doing the deadlift. The deadlift is actually not the problem my form and my deadlift is not the problem. It is an in-balance and muscles on that leg. And so what can we be doing to make sure that we're taking, like, consistent care of ourselves, and then when we hear, when we feel pain, really doing some sort of creating, some sort of like, okay, hold on, what's my sleep like, what's my intake like, what's my fuel like, have I been consistent? So if you are someone who, like, doesn't work out for a week, and then goes and works out hard, like, I got to get in it, just so, you know, you're going to be in some pain afterwards because you didn't have consistency going into it. So, you know, just do some reflection before you go, oh, that's a problem.

Brad Crowell 27:20

Speak about reflection, which, which is, this is pretty funny for, for if you have people coming in and saying, well, last time I did this, I hurt.

Lesley Logan 27:29

Or if you are that person.

Brad Crowell 27:30

Yeah or if you are that person, do you wake up and hurt like, should this? Does that mean you shouldn't sleep like? You know what I mean, the logic doesn't apply here. I just heard like.

Lesley Logan 27:43

So this has nothing to do with that, but it's just my brain thing. Okay?. So this person goes, like, this, like, thing I saw. This person goes, I need to go on a vacation. And this other person goes, did you just come back from a vacation? And then it's like, you should just say, Did you have lunch yesterday? And they're like, yeah, that does that mean you need lunch today? Right? Like, yeah, like, you're if you're.

Brad Crowell 28:06

Like, obviously, you're not gonna say, Well, I guess I shouldn't sleep because, because maybe you just slept on your shoulder, weird, or whatever. And also, too, it doesn't (inaudible) it also doesn't mean that your shoulder is broken or jacked up. It means you stressed it improperly for an extended period of time. Maybe you were sleeping on it weird, right? And how, like, you know, you know how that is, you know how that that feeling is. It could be your ankle or something where it takes a couple of hours for it to work itself out. And what's happening there, which I which I thought was interesting. She talks about how pain. It's a signal from the brain saying something is not 100% correct here. Something is not 100% correct here. Just a reminder. A reminder, a reminder.

Lesley Logan 28:50

It's like, when you hit the button and the community goes, er, and you're like, let me hit that again, it goes, er, and you're like, I don't know why I'm expecting something different.

Brad Crowell 28:58

Yeah, well, and here's how this, here's how this relates to what I loved. She said. She said, the more we don't use it, we lose it, right? You use it or lose it. You've heard that phrase a million times. But she said the thing that was that frustrates her the most is when she her clients come to her and say, the doctor told me I'm not allowed to do this anymore, right? The thing, whatever the thing is, and this is what related to me because, you know, a couple months, Well, geez, in February of this year, it's now, you know, November, I started to feel pain in my foot, in the top of my foot, it was like this pulling pain. It felt like fascia or nerves. I couldn't decide. I still can't decide. And for a long, long time, I just stopped things. I just stopped doing, you know, like, the pointing of my toe, stopped it. All the stuff that you do in yoga class, stopped it. I was like, I need some time off. Well, I gave up the time off, and it didn't fix it, right? So, then what? Then what it was the next thing we do? Started going to the chiropractor. Chiropractor couldn't figure out what's going on, right there. She's like, Hey, you're you're aligned. What are you talking about, right? So, you know, then I was like, must be these other things. So I'm starting to massage myself. I'm doing all this stuff. And then a couple, like, two months ago, I just decided, You know what, I'm just gonna get warm and I'm gonna keep using my foot. I'm just gonna keep using it. Because, you know, one of the things that she said is especially being pregnant a second time, she leaned into, you know, doing her workouts, when her body was was starting to, like, freak out, but her body was going through a major change, and she said, you know, maybe she modified the exercise, but she always felt better after doing her workout, despite being told, you know, you know, her body, you know, sending a signal. And I think, I think that we have to be careful with this. You know, same for me, I have to actually be careful with this. It's not no pain, no gain, yeah, it's not real. I don't agree with that. It's also, you know, there are, there are moments where your body is is trying to warn you on something, but you need to be able to decide for what that is and and understand, right? Is it like pain to the point of like damage, or are we talking that, that signal of warning, you know, that's like, Oh, you have to be cautious, right?

Lesley Logan 31:12

Yeah. Well, it makes it so this morning, I was doing my first Pilates practice on the Reformer in three weeks. And I did not I was like, man, I got my Spine Corrector, and I was like, this not feel awesome. It didn't hurt. It just was like, right? And then I got in the Reformer, and the first overhead kind of was like, but then the second one felt better and the third one felt better. So it's not, it is no no pain, no gain. But is you, if you have a consistent practice of any kind of movement. When you start going, you know, if your body is telling you, this is not a good day or, Oh, hold on, this is opening up. I'm warming up to it. And so when I was doing tendon stretch on the Reformer, normally, I do a single leg tendon stretch. And I did tendon stretch. I did three, and I was like, I in no way feel safe, to lift a leg off. I'm gonna do four more and get off. I got to headstand. I did all the things but the actual headstand, because I have a consistent enough practice in my body, I could tell that I'm going to feel better when it's over, but I'm not pushing myself to do something it shouldn't do. And that just comes with time. It just comes with listening to your body. So, you gotta do that.

Brad Crowell 32:20

Yeah, I mean, you know, she said something that I also thought was interesting, that we never, that I never thought about before. She said, clearly, the outside of our bodies change, our faces sag, or we get wrinkles, things, lalala, why would we never, why would we expect that there are no internal changes as well, right? And she was talking about, you know, joint degeneration, and, you know, all those kinds of things which are natural and they happen, you know, discs in your back, compression, all that kind of stuff. But the only way to age gracefully, despite your body deteriorating is strength. Is strong muscles, right? And so we still should be we need to be prioritizing that in our lives now so that we can be moving with ease as we age.

Lesley Logan 33:11

Yeah, no, it's so and that's just it, you guys, you will never stop having to sleep enough drink, enough water and strengthen your muscles like that you're, so sorry, guaranteed in life until we no longer get to live on this beautiful planet. So, there you go.

Brad Crowell 33:28

Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, stick around. We'll be right back. We're gonna dig into those Be It Action Items that we got from Dr. Jen Fit.

Brad Crowell 33:35

All right, welcome back. Let's dig into these Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items. Can we take away from your conversation with Dr. Jen Fraboni? She explicitly advised against relying on passive stretching as a primary solution for pain, even though it can feel good and relaxing, she said it's better to create stability, that is the fundamental requirement for the body to feel safe. So you were talking about the off balance muscles that you had, which is why your lifting was feeling pain, because you were unstable. Your one muscles, your one set of muscles, were stronger than the other set of muscles. She said, when you create stability, it creates a sense of safety. And she recommends focusing on active stretching, isometric holds and strengthening exercises. She highlighted Pilates as a modality that is great at creating stability and teaching the body safety, especially in the initial phases of pain recovery. So yay for Pilates. That's fantastic. What about you? Go ahead, go ahead.

Lesley Logan 34:37

I was gonna say, like today, we were in yoga, and my left hamstring just would not open up. And the reality is my left hip just feeling unstable. That's why we're headed to the chiropractor after this. And it's like, I cannot open up this hamstring when my pelvis is out. And so I just really like, that was such a that's such a takeaway for me. I love that Be It Action Item. So be mindful of the passive stretching, my loves. Just be mindful. I love, this is great, t only way that we start to know how to move forward is if we tune in first. So it's really, this is this kind of goes back to, like a Brad BizJack's episode, actually, and that and that, maybe he didn't say it in this episode, but he has said it in something that I've heard of him before, which is, but go listen to that episode anyways, he's like, you would never, you would never just like, go get in the car and drive somewhere without having, like, a destination in mind. Unlike most people, don't check in with how they feel before they like move their body. They just start moving their body like they're not tuning in. So before you set a goal, before you do things, you have to kind of go inward first, so that you know where you're putting your compass, where you're putting your directions, where you're moving forward to. So otherwise you're like, oh, maybe I should do if you don't tune in first, you're gonna be the person who's like, oh, the hot new thing is Jiu Jitsu, and I'm doing Jiu Jitsu, and then that new hot thing is this box thing on a trampoline, like you're not going to actually be able to look at a movement modality and go, oh, that's what my body needs. You'll just be like, going hopping from one thing to the next expecting a quick fix. So I did love that one. And then she really, she advised onto every day to take five deep, long, slow breaths, mouth closed, and focus on taking breath into the sides of your rib cage. OPC members know this.

Brad Crowell 36:24

Diaphragmatic breathing.

Lesley Logan 36:26

And avoid breathing into your shoulders, neck or chest. Otherwise you're gonna feel stressed. But if you take these deep breaths, you often will see that the pain starts to diminish. I'm Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 36:35

And I'm Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 36:36

I really hope this was helpful, especially if pain is part of your daily life, it is really hard to be it till you see it in that kind of state. And so hopefully this gave you some tips, gave you some ideas, gave you some permission and share it with a friend who needs to hear it, especially one who's like this topic is like, what they're needing right now. It's, I don't know, there's just so much permission in this episode. Until next time, Be It Till You see it.

Brad Crowell 36:55

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 36:57

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 37:39

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 37:44

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 37:49

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 37:56

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 37:59

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

Lesley Logan 38:11

I don't know if we're doing a second one next year. We're gonna try, but you know, we'll see.

Brad Crowell 38:16

You are just making up the URLs here.

Lesley Logan 38:19

I'm not.

Lesley Logan 38:19

Yeah, crowsnestretreats.com. Just go to crowsnestretreats.com.

Lesley Logan 38:23

You gave me the waitlist one.

Brad Crowell 38:25

No.

Lesley Logan 38:25

Yeah, not on this sheet, but in life.

Brad Crowell 38:28

Okay, because of 404. So I'll have the team fix that right now.

Lesley Logan 38:31

Fix that, please, because I gave it to somebody else last week on Instagram, because you gave that to me. Okay.

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605. Discover How to Age Gracefully with Strength