631. Job Security Is an Illusion

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After rebuilding her life from divorce and financial uncertainty, Pav Lertjitbanjong shares why job security is often an illusion—and what actually creates peace of mind. In this conversation, Pav explains how becoming layoff ready is about strategically creating options for yourself before you’re forced to make a change. She breaks down the three numbers that bring clarity to financial decisions and why waiting for security keeps people stuck. This episode is a grounded look at what it really means to layoff-proof your life.

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In this episode you will learn about:

  • How Pav found clarity after emotional overwhelm.
  • Pav’s own strategic approach to paying off her debt.
  • What layoff proofing your life truly means for your future.
  • Why job security is an illusion but career resilience is not.
  • Three numbers everyone needs to feel financially prepared.


Episode References/Links:


Guest Bio:

Pav Lertjitbanjong is a marketing and brand strategist with more than two decades of experience leading strategy for global, billion-dollar brands. She is the creator of PAVNESS, a framework designed to help high-achieving individuals navigate major life transitions with clarity, courage, and intention. Known for turning complex strategy into clear, human-centered stories, Pav’s work lives at the intersection of brand positioning, personal reinvention, and meaningful messaging. Her approach is shaped not just by her professional background, but by her own experience rebuilding her life through uncertainty and change. Pav believes true success is not defined by titles, revenue, or external validation, but by alignment and the confidence to be fully seen. Today, she helps leaders and creators reconnect with who they are becoming—both in business and in life. Her story is a reminder that clarity comes from honesty, and bold moves often begin quietly.

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Episode Transcript:

Pav Lertjitbanjong 0:00  

I rebuilt my life after divorce and basically left me completely shattered financially and emotionally, but I learned how to layoff-proof my life, and now I'm quitting my job and retiring from corporate at 43 years old. So now I teach people how to take control of their money and rebound from any situation without overwhelm.


Lesley Logan 0:22  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. 


Lesley Logan 1:05  

All right, Be It babe, this is a interesting conversation you're about to hear, because I really was super intrigued by our guests today. I got to meet them several months ago, talk about what they're excited to do. They have actually been a listener of the Be It Pod for a really long time. They've been being it till they see it. And that's literally why they are sharing what they're doing right now. And so I'm super excited for you to hear about Pav and being layoff, layoff ready, right? And I think that's you might be thinking, wow, aren't talking about laying on, getting laid off? You guys, we have to. We have to. Some of you in your be it till you see it might have to be laid off, or might get laid off, or might want to be laid off. So, so I think this is a really cool conversation of like preparedness and also, like honesty about what is life? What is the life we want? Like, have we been honest with ourselves? And when I got off the comic path, we talked about confidence a little bit, and so it wasn't recorded. So I kind of want to just like, bring this in and then I want to you to hear this amazing episode from Pav and hear her journey, and hear what she's doing here, so she's helping people, because I think a lot of people are going to need, like, layoff proof their life. So, confidence, you guys, confidence, isn't something you are deemed with. No one gives it to you. It's also not something you go and get. Confidence comes from doing the thing you said you do. So every time you tell yourself you're gonna go for a walk around the block, and then you postpone it to like answer an email, you are actually etching away at your confidence. But if you go and do the walk, then you are increasing your confidence strength. A lot of people think, oh, once I'm more confident, then I will do X. No, do X, and you will become more confident, right? So with that said, thank you, Pav, for that wonderful question. I'm so sorry you guys, wasn't recorded. I hope that little tidbit gets you there, and here's Pav and Layoff Ready. 


Lesley Logan 3:02  

All right, Be It babe, I'm excited, today's topic, I think maybe we've touched on it a little bit in people's stories, but never had like, someone who's expert at it, someone who's, like, truly been through the trenches and come on the other side, and like, has expertise to share with you, and like skill sets and all those things also probably one of the coolest Be It actions I've ever seen someone do. I hope we get into it as well. Pav, you're our guest today, can you tell everyone who you are and what you're rocking at? 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 3:29  

Yes. Hi Lesley, thank you so much for having me. It's been an honor to be here. So I am Pav Lertjitbanjong. I'm the founder of Layoff Ready and a financial resilience mentor. So basically, what I do is I help professionals to help build income security and freedom. And, you know, before that, I was working in corporate, just like most people, and realized that, you know, finally it's the matrix that we kind of, like, you know, onto, like, this hamster wheel, and had this moment and eventually got out of it. So yeah, and I rebuilt my life after divorce, and basically, kind of left me completely shattered financially and emotionally, but I learned how to layoff proof my life, and now I'm, you know, quitting my job and retiring from corporate at 43 years old. So now I teach people how to take control of their money and and, you know, rebound from any situation without overwhelm and fluff.


Lesley Logan 4:27  

Oh, I love this. First of all, 43 and you're, like, retired. I think you had all of us. I mean, clearly you're working, you create your own thing, but like, you're retired from corporate life. Like, I think a lot of ears perked up, because that's not the option for a lot of people. I do want to take a step back, because I do love that you shared that like you have gone through divorce, you have had to pick up yourself and put all the pieces back together and start over, like a lot of people listening to the show, you know? I mean, I hope we have some Gen Z, but most likely, most of them are a little they're over 40, and we have been. And through things in life, and sometimes we can take it really personally and think there's something wrong with us. How can we go back in time a little bit like, how did you pick the pieces up after divorce? Like, what? What did you do to even get yourself to a place? Because I can't, unless your divorce was 20 years ago, it feels like this all happened very quickly, that you went from divorced and broke to, like, retiring from corporate. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 5:22  

Yeah and Lesley, thank you so much for asking me this question, and it's the one that I've kind of like pondered for so long, because, you know, like, when we've been through like, such dramatic situation like this, right? Like we don't usually reflect on the lessons that we typically learn from so I thought about that. So basically, okay, let me just maybe backward on, like, okay, my divorce situation. So I've been married for about seven years, and then, you know, things didn't work out. I think part of this now that I have, like, my renewed faith in in God and, you know, the universe, I believe that if you are onto the path that God is not blessing you, that is not your true calling, he will destroy that path. And that resulted into my divorce. And so the moment that I gathered courage to okay, say to myself that okay, I cannot be in this situation anymore. I need to really do something, or I'm gonna spend the rest of my life, you know, crying about it for the life that I have not lived. And just like what you always say, you know, we do it messy, and we, right? 


Lesley Logan 6:36  

Yeah. Life is messy. It's, you can't like it can't not be, you know, like, one of my dear, my first assistants was a doula. She's like, birth is really messy. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 6:48  

Yeah. But, you know, I think, like, once you focus on something, and then you surrender to God, he will lead the way. That's what I've that I've believed in. So, you know, with my with my divorce, in order for me to get them to get a divorce, the first step, my lawyer said, Okay, you need to get your baseline ready. You need to do budgeting. And I'm like, okay, with an MBA in finance, I didn't know how to do budgeting, which was like, so crazy. And I'll tell you this, like with Layoff Ready, I have worked with some of the clients that are, like, higher up in corporate, and they are the same, I think, like, the higher up you are, you rely so much on like, so called experts to help with your personal life, life, right? Like, because you are so good at what you do, so you don't really, yeah, you you neglect what you need to do for yourself, because you just totally trust experts. And that's kind of how I've always been. So I had to start from the ground up in terms of, okay, like, what exactly is my net worth without my husband or ex husband now? And it took me six months Lesley, not because it was hard in the sense that, like, oh, all the calculation, because I'm like, a number person anyway, but the six months to actually feel the feelings, right? Like, really, gather all the documents and really, okay, this is it. You know, once I submit that paperwork, once I file this, then that's the beginning of the new life unknown.


Lesley Logan 8:20  

Thank you for sharing that. I think a lot of people don't do things because it really does mean by finishing it, it marks the end, like, that's the end of that, you know, like, whether it's a person who's passed away or a pet that's passed away, like, dealing with the their toys and the dog beds, whatever it is, like, once it's gone, it's like, well, they're really gone. Like, there's not even a sign of them around here. So like going through and figuring it out, like I can see why you would want to take six months, not because the numbers are hard, but because it's hard. It's just hard. Yeah.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 8:49  

Exactly, Lesley. And I mean, when you talk about pets, you know, I've been through that same situation too, and I am a procrastinator, and that's my new year resolution, which I'm kind of, like slowly getting there. Same thing, like, when, when my two, my two rabbits died from that marriage, you know, they came with me. It also took me six months to, like, clean up everything.


Lesley Logan 9:12  

Yeah, because it was, like, the last, you know, like the last thing of that, yeah. Well, so, okay, so during the six months, did you do anything to kind of help yourself out? Did you go did you stay home and, like, wallow? Did you go out? Like, how did you, like, take care of yourself and get to know yourself? Was there anything, any Be It Action Items that you did in there? 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 9:32  

Oh my gosh, okay. Like, shamelessly saying, I did absolutely nothing, just like, wallowing, you know, being in, like, my shoe box apartment in New York City, because at the time, I already moved out of my my house, and I didn't really have much in savings at the time, because basically, when you're married, then, you know, things are kind of commingled in a way. So not so much. You know, that was probably one of the darkest time of my life. And you know, back to like what I did, and what did I learn from that, from from like, the whole process was that the power of budgeting that's so important. And let me just tell you this, Lesley, so after that six months, I decided, okay, like, I need to do something. I I'm gonna file that paper and get that budgeting done. Took me one day. 


Lesley Logan 10:20  

Right. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 10:21  

One day. 


Lesley Logan 10:22  

Right, I know it's really funny, isn't it so funny? Like, I think we can all, like, see ourselves in this I'm like, oh my god, I gotta write that email, or I gotta go to that thing. I gotta go, and then you go it was like, 17 minutes at the DMV that wasn't even that part. Like, it just feels so heavy. Yes, I understand. I understand. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 10:38  

Yeah. So it took me one day of focus work to get that going and everything. And to my surprise, when, like, back to when we're talking about, like, you know, when we surrender to God, God actually, like, help pave the way for you and I found almost half a million dollars in a hidden 401k account. 


Lesley Logan 10:59  

That's half a million dollars? 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 11:01  

Almost, close to, yeah. 


Lesley Logan 11:02  

Oh my god. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 11:04  

So when you talk about save it and you forget it, I literally forgotten that. And no joke, like, serious, and.


Lesley Logan 11:13  

That's, Pav, that's insane. So, like, here you were, like, broke as a joke on a tiny apartment. Procrastinate. I just want to, like, reiterate this so that people, like, stop procrastinating, procrastinating and wallowing all these things. Then you do the paperwork and you have a half a million dollars.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 11:30  

Yes, close enough. So, so yeah, like, my life literally just kind of changed overnight, you know, with that one power of budgeting. 


Lesley Logan 11:39  

And by then you'd learn how to budget. So that's great. So probably best, probably best. You had to learn how to budget first.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 11:46  

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So that was basically like my moment that, you know, my whole life, Lesley, like okay as a woman, and actually not all women, but maybe like the way that I was raised, I always thought that, okay, the only way for me to become a millionaire, to become financially free, I need security of a man to help me.


Lesley Logan 12:10  

Oh, you're, I mean, I think, first of all, so in the States, women couldn't get their own credit card until, like, their 80s, 1980s right? So, like, like, in my lifetime, right? And I think I can't remember when women were allowed to buy their own homes, but at any the reason why, like, people are always like, oh, there's so much divorce now there's, no, women couldn't leave shitty shit because they couldn't own a home, they couldn't often find work, and they certainly couldn't have a credit card. So like, yeah, Pav, like, we're of the age where, like my mom, like her mom, couldn't, didn't have a credit card when she was of her own right. So my mom is the first person in my family that could have her own money. So I think a lot of us have that, that we're not raised with that. And so what you see around you, because that first generation above you, they all had to go through that. That's how they were raised. So it's completely normal to think that. And I think what's really cool is we've now had 40 something years of it. So it can change where we we all can be billionaires, and then we can marry someone, whether it's a man or woman who also is a millionaire, and then we can have more money that we can do good things with.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 13:13  

Yes, the more the merrier, Lesley, yeah, and I think, like to your point, basically, I think what went through with my life, even though I suffer for a long period of time, I felt that it actually was proud of myself that I was able to help, like, break the generational curse, you know, because that were, like, what you talked about, you know, like there were women that didn't really have those opportunities.


Lesley Logan 13:40  

No, and they weren't loved either, like, not for who they were, yeah, my gosh, Pav. So you get to this place where, like, oh my gosh. Now you're not devastated. I mean, you're devastated from the divorce emotionally, but you're not devastated financially. You have, you have a jumping off point. So can we, can we jump ahead to like, how do you go from like, okay, I am now I'm gonna go now I have a half million dollars. It's not enough to like, retire off of today. But how do you go from that to like, I'm gonna help people be layoff ready? Because one of the things that, like, I feel is so topical. We talked about this before I hit record, it's like, there's a lot of people being laid off right now, and with AI, which has its own devastating effects and also great things. We use AI all the time, like, there's going to be more. And so I think, like, you know, in case, in case, someone can't just randomly find an old 401K they forgot about, how do we prepare them?


Pav Lertjitbanjong 14:33  

Yeah, okay, so you have asked so many amazing questions. So like, let me break it down. So like, number one you were asking about, like, okay, how did they kind of jump start from like, okay, that's aha, moment that okay, finally, it can be my own rich man, or at least the starting point until, like, okay, helping people, right? So I think, like, ever since then, I realized that okay, now I can be my own rich man, that I cannot rely on the security of a man to. 


Lesley Logan 15:00  

No, you don't have to. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 15:00  

For anything, right? Even though, like, okay, great, we, we would love to find my soulmate. I mean, our soulmate, and I'd love to have a rich husband again, but you're not better version. But, yeah. But I think ever since then, I realized the power of financial literacy and, you know, really becoming my own person, because I always had low self-esteem, Lesley, you know, I think it's just kind of like what we talk about, the general generational curse. So anyway, since then, I started, like, okay, studying investing, personal finance, you know, make sure that okay. Like, by the way, I don't think that I dropped that bomb on you yet. But I also, like, with that marriage, I had about $100,000 debt. So with the money that I found, even though I had the 401K, you cannot liquidate the whole thing, right? Because you pay so much taxes. 


Lesley Logan 15:52  

There's rules. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 15:53  

Yeah, exactly. Like, like, it's your money, but it's not your money. 


Lesley Logan 15:58  

Right, right, right, right. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 15:59  

Yeah. So okay, so I had to find a way to, like, supplement that. How can I make more money? So, like, one is okay, I already have a corporate job. It's good paying, but obviously it didn't really help fund my entire lifestyle because, like, I used to live large, but now on my own, I need to, like, okay, number one, downsize my life a little bit more. You know, like, I can't really go to, like, three Michelin star on a Friday, you know, if I want to, these days, you know, something that you have to, like, really plan on. And then, let me forewarn you, it doesn't apply to everyone, but for me, I actually strategically leverage debt to help me pay debt.


Lesley Logan 16:38  

Yeah, heck yeah, girl, are you, I haven't had one come in the mail, but I definitely when I was like, getting out of homelessness and getting back on my feet, I was like, oh, this card will let me be interest-free for 18 months. Heck yeah. We're taking this card move all this debt over, so now I'm actually paying it off, and now I have 18 months to pay this off. Yes, yes, I hear you. I, there's, but there, because there is better, there is better debt out there. Yes, for sure.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 17:06  

Exactly, yeah. So free money. So one thing led to another, I was and then Covid happened. You know when people talk about and okay, like, let me just be clear, Covid totally suck. Like, that should not happen, but for me, I was lucky, in a sense that okay, during Covid, you know, I got to work from home. You know, as a tech worker, you get to work from home, and I had a little bit time, you know, like during, like, early hour, because I work West Coast hour before to really do a little bit of day trading, you know, like, maybe the first two, three hours after the market stopped before I actually work my real job, and I got lucky, I was able to buy at the lowest, probably, and it kind of bounced from there.


Lesley Logan 17:52  

Yeah, that's what you're I mean, like, when everything was going crazy recently and going low, like our neighbors like this, I'm like, I'm not even looking. I'm literally giving them more money. I'm gonna give my people more money to go play in the other places that it's gonna be good. Like, obviously, to avoid these but, like, we'd be smart about it. But like, this is how people got rich in the Depression. You gotta buy when it's low and during those Covid times, good for you. You know what I'm hearing from you Pav is, like, you're not afraid to do something that is a little scary, and you're not waiting for someone to tell you it's okay. Like, that's pretty badass.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 18:27  

I've not always been that way, Lesley, but thank you. It's an honor hearing that from you. 


Lesley Logan 18:33  

Well, I mean, clearly the, maybe it's the divorce that, like, made made you that way. You know what I mean? Because I think sometimes we go through hard things, we're like, whoa. Like you develop a skill set because you need to, you know, so, like, I think that's really cool. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 18:45  

Thank you. Yeah, and I think, like, the most important things, actually two things that I was able to gain from the divorce, not just, like, the money part, which that is great, right? Like, with investing, one thing led to another. I was able to, like, you know, make a lot more money from there. And by the way, I got a promotion after, you know, when I decided, okay, like, I need to make more. You know, the Power Focus is when you focusing on something like it actually happened, because God was just like, make sure that he orchestrate everything for you.


Lesley Logan 19:17  

Well, also you're putting yourself out there, and you and you said the right words, focus. I think a lot of people go, I don't have this, as opposed to, where can I get this? You know, like, you're like, I need to make more money. What's in front of me? And so I think that that's a really important distinction, because a lot of people like, I have no money, and they sit around going wallowing, I don't have any money, I'm having and they're like, look, there are days for crying, like you are going through a divorce, there's a few. You should have a few fuck, fucking crying days on the floor. But then you have to, like, get up and go, okay, what do I want? What can I do with what I have? And so I love the like, I'm gonna put in for a promotion. Like you don't get a promotion if you're not ready for it. Like no one's doing in corporate., as a woman, no, you had to earn that so, like, I mean, like, I'm sure there's not all corporations do that, but like, let's be real. Like, a lot of them, you have to prove that you are more than qualified for that job. So way to go.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 20:12  

Yeah, thank you. And by the way, to add on top of that, like, when you were talking about, if you don't ask, you don't receive. Like, that's so true, because, like, I had a co worker I came to and I asked her, like, hey, I want to put you on a promotion list, you know, as an endorser for this quarter. And she's like, oh, thank you. I really appreciate that. But, you know, I am like, I think I thought it was due to for promotion, like, last year. I'm like, well, have you ever asked for it? No. Like, if you never ask, you never get it. You don't get it.


Lesley Logan 20:43  

Oh that is, you know, it's unfortunate, but like, it's true, like, a lot of people get places because they just asked, you know, like, there's even just some opportunities that I have had because I just asked, not because I was qualified, you know, I mean, I had to be qualified enough. But, you know, like, sometimes it's just like, who, you know, so, or what, who, whom you ask. So, I love that. So, okay, so you got a promotion, you play the stock market, and then were you like, were you always thinking about, okay, I can't wait. Like, I want to retire from corporate early. Was that like the plan? How did, how did you go from like, getting promotion, working corporate and day trading, to going, okay, I'm gonna help people prepare their lives for a big change, like a change outside their control, because that's what Layoff Ready is. It's like you're ready if a change outside of your control happens.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 21:32  

Right. Yeah, Lesley, and that's such a great question, and to be honest with you, like I've always had in my mind that I want to retire early, because ever since I was young, I always knew that, like, this is not it, like my life should not be in PowerPoint and, you know, be a corporate robot. And even though, like, let me just tell you, I know, like some people talk about, like, burnout, or, you know, like, how they've been treated badly by their companies, I feel very fortunate, like my career so far in general, that I have been treated very well for the most part, and I'm really, really, really grateful for that. But I think I've always, like, had that goal that I wanted to be able to retire, like, before 45 or like 50, you know, and really do my own thing and live my life. But let me just tell you I never had that courage, too. So when you told me about, like, hey, Pav, you're a badass, you know, thank you. I can confidently say that yes, Lesley, today's Pav says yes, I am a badass. But like, maybe, like, two months ago Pav, or maybe, like, whatever, you know, 40 years old Pav will not be that. 


Lesley Logan 22:38  

I think it takes time to realize, like somebody in one of our communities, just like, mentioned, like, something happened that four years ago, right? And I was like, and it's so easy to go, oh my god, it's been four years, like, as a long time, and then it's like, it's only been four years, like, I can't believe how, like, what you've done in like, such a short time. So, like, it's, of course, like you recognizing your boldness and your badassery, like, in the last couple of months versus three years, like, there's, I don't think that's even you don't have to just, you can act that's fine. That's exactly when you found it, you discovered it. And I think that's important because, like, there's going to be days we don't feel like that. But also we have to look back and go, whoa look what I did in such a short period of time, you know, like, a short period of time, like, that's kind of a lot of growth. So let's talk about Layoff Ready a little bit, because I think a lot of people think it won't happen to them. Oh, it's gonna happen to that person, but I'm really great at my job, or I'm, you know what I mean, like, I'm really excellent at this. Like, what are some things people need to be thinking about, or just, like, reviewing, you know, because it's gonna take them a couple weeks that they should be looking into to make sure that they're layoff ready. Like, what are some signs, or what are some actions? 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 23:47  

Yeah, so first, and thank you for asking Lesley. So Layoff Ready is a freedom-based financial preparation. So it's not just like, oh, you know, like, hey, this is like, your investment advisor telling you to like, okay, this is how you allocate your your investment so on, right? But this is more about like, how can you really design a life that you really want to live in, you know? So to to decide a life that give you the option for freedom if you want to, it's not about like, hey, you know, tomorrow, or everybody goes and go into the office and like, hey, I want to quit my job because I'm layoff ready? Some people, maybe you really love the job that you're doing. But you know, like, what you touch on is, with this economy, is your job really safe? Not really, with AI rising, I don't think that anybody is safe, right? Like, for God's sake, people been talking about what like by 2032 we may not even like have jobs the way that we see it.


Lesley Logan 24:47  

Oh yeah, I think, and that's 2032 that is, that is a very short time away. It is seven years like I'm an optimistic person most of the time, and when I think about what AI is going to do, I. I think about like, it's not going to be great for everybody. It's going to be great for those who can use it. It's not going to be great for everybody. So I do think that like preparing ourselves to understand, like, what, what is a life we want to live. And I love that, like going through that so that no matter if you choose it or it chooses you, you can be, you can be, you know, you'll still cry, but you can have a next step.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 25:24  

Exactly, yeah, and I think, like, you know, it's also beyond, like, the financial preparedness or the career preparedness, but like, the emotional clarity and preparedness that comes with that, right? Like, basically, it gives you an option to be able to walk away from a situation or a job or even like people, or like, in my case, like a marriage that no longer align with with you, with your goal in life. And so for me, I think layoff ready, layoff proofing your life is about like, you know, being like, strategically creating options for yourself so you never feel stuck. Like, you don't wait for security, you create it, and you build the skills and the incomes before you need them. And you also, like, you know, help you stay adaptable, knowing that job security is an illusion, but the career resilience is real, and that's what I think is so critical these days.


Lesley Logan 26:20  

So many takeaways. But like, we don't wait for security. We create security like that, that is key, Pav, that is like, I think a lot of people have a false security with their gigs, with their jobs, you know. And I think also, you know, the way the world works, it gives them that false security. Like took my husband and I over two years to prove to the powers that be that we could afford a home, because we don't work for anybody but ourselves. Never mind that ourselves have made more money year after year. You know, like every tax season, you can see that where our company is growing, they're like, oh, but you work for yourself. No, that's not trustworthy. Well, I'm not gonna fire me. So like, feels pretty secure, if you ask me. But like, I think it's like creating that security and creating the things around your life. You know, when we were talking about Covid, like, which was terrible, yes, yes, yes. But let's talk about this. The good thing is that came as a lot of people evaluated what they were doing and what they wanted and what they needed, because they were laid off, you know, they were forced to do it in a way. But like with what you're doing with people now is like actually helping them decide it ahead of times they have to leave, right? Like they're not, you're not necessarily encouraging them to leave, but you're just helping them create the ability to have a decision.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 27:40  

Exactly, yeah, and, and I also think that when you layoff-proof your life, it not like, not only it just gives you options, but it actually gives you peace of mind as well. And I think, like, in this day and age, especially at our age now, it's, it's the most important. I think, like, it's like, way more important, even beyond, like, money or success.


Lesley Logan 28:03  

Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, I agree. Like, you know, they say, like, we have six, there's six needs we all have universally. So certainty is one of them. And like, we all crave it, right? Like, craving that certainty, like, the job is going to be there, the money is going to be there. But we also crave uncertainty. We want things to change, right? But what you're talking about and what you've promoted yourself to doing you retired from corporate to do this with people is like, help them be able to make a decision for themselves and have certainty around it.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 28:40  

Right, yeah. And I think one, one important thing too, Lesley, that I feel like we have been lied to, is I don't think that we need that much in life in general, like in this capitalism society, like, do we need, like, you know, 10 handbags or.


Lesley Logan 28:57  

Well, I do, but some people don't.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 29:01  

More power to you. More power to you.


Lesley Logan 29:04  

But I, but I do agree, like, it is interesting. Like, I actually believe in a healthy capitalism, right? Like, I actually think, like, Netherlands is really great. Like, I want to live there. They have a community-based capitalism. I'm in. But I do think that you're right that, like, there's a lot of lies, that the more stuff we have, the more rich we are. When really, like, I'm looking at a very full closet and like, when was the last time we opened this closet door? Like, when do we use these things? And so I think that there is something about what you're saying is like, we can layoff-proof of our life by just evaluating, like, are we living a life that we actually want or are we living one that we we're lied to about. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 29:44  

Right. Exactly. I think, like my point on.


Lesley Logan 29:47  

I'm sorry, I cut you off because I, because people know I have a lot of handbags.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 29:51  

Trust me, me too, like I used to work so close to Fifth Avenue, so totally understand, and that's why I never had savings when I was younger. Anyway, but, yeah, like, basically, you don't need millions to retire early if you want to. There are different types of retirement, or, like, we call it like a FIRE, right? The FIRE movement, Financial Independence Retire Early movement. So there are different types of FIRE that allows you to retire early. Like some people, for example, can, you know, retire with, like, a super tight budget. Some people retire with big budget, with what? So what that means they need to make more money, and they need to invest more and they need longer time to invest, right? Or some people, they call it like a barista FIRE. So for barista FIRE is more on you you basically you retire, but if you still, like, keep a part time job that gives you benefits, and, you know, like, still earn.


Lesley Logan 30:45  

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like, my dad, because he can't sit still. Can't do it.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 30:51  

I mean, whatever works for, you know, for for him, or, like, for each person is totally different. But yeah, like, I before I retire, and I would say, like, now I'm more, like, you know, kind of in a way, like a same might retired, because obviously, like, I don't think that we can actually, like, sit still and just, okay, like, today I'm just gonna go to the beach and do nothing, even though it's so cool, but you get bored, right? But, but, yeah, like, you can live with so much less, and you don't need millions of dollars to retire. I think that's what I I've learned from that, and how I came to that realization, though, Lesley is because of the numbers. So, you know, like, when you were talking about, like, how can people prepare to, like, layoff-proof their lives? How can people prepare to like, you know, if they want option to retire early? Like, what's the first step to get there? I would say, know your numbers. So there are only three numbers that you need to know that is so important, like, one is your net worth, assets, minus liability. The second one, I call it FU funds. People have different definition of that, but my FU fund is more like an emergency fund. You know, when you talk to experts, because sometimes people say, okay, like three to six months. I don't think it's enough these days with inflation, right? You need, like, Yeah, six, twelve months. So, basically, exactly. So that's the money that you can kind of walk out if from any situation, if you want to, it's kind of like, okay, if you I go by kind of situation. And then the last one is the one we discussed, like, on the fire, like, how much money you need to invest in in the market in order for you to, like, take a smaller amount in, on average, I think it's about 4% that you can take safely from your investment, so that you can live on and still have some money left to.


Lesley Logan 32:34  

Reinvest if that that's working for you. I that's great. I think that makes it so easy. Because I think a lot of people think like, oh, gotta think about my retirement. I gotta think about my life. Oh, I got laid off crap. And it's like, if you only have to focus on three numbers, it makes it really simple. And I love this idea of, like, barista fire. These are fun. These are really great. Pav, who are you most excited to work with? Like, who do you want to like, are you do do like, who is it that you're wanting to make sure that you help people like, Layoff Ready?


Pav Lertjitbanjong 33:08  

So I typically work with more, like a high achiever, people in corporate but I think the most I would say, like underserved market is women, right? Like, women, especially a little bit older, like, 40 plus years old that has been in corporate for a while, and are more prone to be laid off. I think these are the demographic that I'm like, so excited to work with, because essentially, that's kind of like me, in a way. You know, I think when we pursue our, like, real, true passion project, or like I call like God's given purpose, you actually are serving the people that. How do I say that? Like your younger self, in a way, basically.


Lesley Logan 33:54  

Totally, everyone who listens to this podcast is, was me. Maybe there may be there different ages of the my younger version of but yes, we are all with we're the best. We are best able to serve the people we once were. So I love this. Pav, this is so exciting. We're gonna take a brief break. Find out how people can find you, follow you and work with you.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 34:14  

Yes, so you can find me on Tiktok at momentsofreset, M-O-M-E-N-T of reset, or layoffready.com. 


Lesley Logan 34:22  

layoffready.com Yeah, I can't believe that wasn't, good for you, that was waiting for you momentsofreset and layoffready.com. All right, Pav, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps do you have for us to take away from this episode? 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 34:36  

Okay. So bold doesn't have to be loud, but it has to be true. The life that you want is not built at once. So it's built in the micro moment of honesty to yourself, so until one day the outside world catches up, and you know, you just be it to till you see it, and people will see it too.


Lesley Logan 34:57  

Oh, that is so beautiful. That is actually so true, those micro moments of you being honest and you're that's so wise, Pav, and then the world catches up with you. I love, instead of us. I love that. I love that so much. 


Pav Lertjitbanjong 35:11  

Thank you. Thank you. 


Lesley Logan 35:15  

I, well, this is so fun, because it's not like I don't always have people who've been listening to show for a long time move and slowly being it till they see it on the show. Like it's just not something that happens very often. And so it's just so cool to hear the full circle. And for for everyone to hear the full circle of you going through the life that you went through, doing the hard thing, you know? And now you've got something that can help other people do it too. I mean, like, that's just beautiful.


Pav Lertjitbanjong 35:42  

Yeah. And thank you so much, Lesley, for I think, like, the work that you have done actually has not just only helped me, but I'm sure, like, it has helped thousands, if not millions, of people. You are doing God's work. So I think, like, I wish that that would be more of you. So thank you so much for all you have done. Thank you.


Lesley Logan 36:01  

Oh, Pav, I can't, you're the last thing in my day today, and I've never received that. I'm going to take it with me on a vacation. I'm so, so grateful. You know, if we all give ourselves the credit that we would give other people, right, we would realize that, like, we actually are doing great jobs, and it's just hard. It's just hard because you don't see all the efforting that's happening. You don't see all the people whose lives, but even you, Pav, saying thank you. And also you're going to give so many people permission on this show, you know whether or not they call you to be Layoff Ready but maybe they actually just go, oh, wait. I can actually just fill out that paper. It's gonna take one day or, oh, I actually need to sit down and think about, like, what do I want? What does wealth mean to me? Like, I think that it's just so cool, and you've just given some great things. So now you're on your way to impact more and more people in the world and it's going to be a better place because of people like you and people like me and people who are listening to this podcast. You know, people listening to this podcast, you guys are amazing people, cheerleading people all the time. And I say this to the people I coach you are the only person who can do what you do the way that you do it. You are it. And so don't be quiet. Don't be soft. Don't hide your magic, because there's people who are literally waiting for you. You know you're the only one. So, Pav, thank you for stepping out and creating Layoff Ready. I'm super excited for what you're doing and for the people who are gonna experience it. And everyone, share this with a friend who needs to hear it, someone who needs to hear a journey that someone's been on, someone who needs to hear that there is ways to prepare themselves. So no matter what happens, they're ready for it and but they even they can be like a barista fire. That's so cool. Didn't even know that. So Pav, thank you so much. And until next time everyone, Be It Till You See It.


Lesley Logan 37:42  

Hey, be it babe. So what  I love so much about the guests that we bring on is that they continue to research what they are experts in and dive in deeper. And when they find new ways of helping people, they always reach out and let us know. And Pav has been doing a ton of research and science around. How to make decisions under pressure and what your nervous system is going through, and different things like that. So if you are working in the leadership experience or you're trying to dive more into that, or you have, you notice you're having a hard time making decisions. She's also coaching and advising people in that capacity. So if you enjoyed her energy and  her way of thinking about this topic, you're gonna love what she's doing over there.  


Lesley Logan 37:43  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.


Brad Crowell 38:26  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 38:30  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.


Brad Crowell 38:35  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.


Lesley Logan 38:42  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.


Brad Crowell 38:45  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai



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