658. Your Children Are Intuitively Born to Grow

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In this eye-opening episode, Lesley Logan sits down with Gail Hugman, an educator with 50 years of experience, to relieve the immense pressure modern parents place on themselves. If you've ever felt like your child's success is a direct reflection of your daily micromanaging, Gail’s expert insight offers a massive exhale. She explains how to step back from cultural expectations, stop doing everything for your kids, and allow their innate brilliance to surface. This conversation offers grounded shifts that reduce conflict and help children grow into capable, confident adults.

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In this episode you will learn about:

  • The "brick walk" exercise that teaches children how to concentrate.
  • Why we must talk to children about the actual "process" of listening.
  • Handling the "Why should I?" question instead of answering "because I said so."
  • The difference between a child's natural life and world life.
  • Why executive skills like self control must be taught.


Episode References/Links:


Guest Bio:

Gail Hugman is a distinguished educator and author with 50 years of experience dedicated to helping children—and their parents—thrive by mastering the internal skills that traditional schooling often overlooks. While many focus solely on academic grades, Gail’s work targets the root of a child’s success: motivation, mindset, and the "how-to" of learning. Through her unique methodology, she provides children with the essential tools to become self-motivated, focused, and confident individuals who take pride in their own achievements. 


Drawing on her deep passion for human development and the neuroscience of learning, Gail’s approach centers on teaching executive function skills such as concentration, listening, and self-control. She recognizes that in a fast-paced world, neither schools nor overwhelmed parents always have the specialized resources to instill these foundational life skills. Gail bridges this gap, transforming the family dynamic by helping children become independent and capable.

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Episode Transcript:

Gail Hugman 0:23  

Thing is, I say to parents, sometimes, this child came to join your life, not to take it over. 


Lesley Logan 0:24  

That's so good. 


Gail Hugman 0:11  

Teach them what they need to know to be as independent as they can be at every single stage, because that's what a little human being craves.


Lesley Logan 0:25  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. 


Lesley Logan 1:08  

Be It babe, okay, so, today's episode, if you don't have children, you might be like, this isn't for me. I hope you listen either, because it might help you make sense of your childhood. It might help you support your friends who are parents. If you've already parented, you might think it like I hope you listen, because I have a parenting expert. Well, if not parenting expert, I would call her a education expert of children, and her be it action item for every single one of us to support children is amazing and wonderful and simple and hard and complicated and necessary and doable, and I'm really excited about it, because, ladies, I've been I've been trying to figure out how to help you prioritize yourself first. And for many of you, there is the love and responsibility of your children that are keeping you from that, from prioritizing yourself first, from being it till you see it, from doing the Pilates you say you want to do. And my hope was that Gayle hugman, our guest today, could give you some tools, some support, some insight into the role that you have. And hopefully that allows you to not just be the parent you want to be, but be the human you want to be in this world. And while I don't have kids, I hope I don't offend anyone in my in my inquiries and my observations and my wonders. But I also truly believe in every single one of you who are parents and so grateful when I'm older, someone's child does need to help take care of me. So there's a weird thing where I would like someone's child to take care of me because I don't have any of my own but also I want you to have the life you so dreamed up and wanted for yourself and for them, and so I hope this episode really supports you in that, and I'd love to hear your takeaways. Here is Gail Hugman. 


Lesley Logan 2:53  

All right, Be It babe. I'm excited. I've have not ever had a guest like this before. One I got to meet this amazing person in real life, on our mullet tour in Essex area, and she loves Pilates. So you my Pilates lovers, know that this woman loves Pilates too. Been doing it a long time, but I I got to know what she does for a living. I thought, oh my gosh, this is a guest I haven't had. I've had a lot of guests that help my my listeners as women as as perimenopausal women as as perfectionist women, but I haven't had anyone who helps them as parents, you know, who add a lot of pressure to themselves to be whatever the world says I need to be as a parent. So Gail Hugman, will you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at?


Gail Hugman 3:38  

I'm Gail Hugman And I have now been teaching for 50 years, and I help children flourish, and I help parents flourish with them. That's my USP.


Lesley Logan 4:00  

50 years. That's a long time. How did you get into that?


Gail Hugman 4:05  

I spent 30 years in London schools, and it used to hurt me to watch potential that I didn't have time to develop and I didn't want to be a principal or a head teacher, because the higher I went, the more paper I saw, the fewer children I saw. And my magic happens with the children. And so I decided to leave, and I asked a young teacher, what is it you find most challenging in teaching? He was just starting. I knew I was just leaving, and he said, immediately, motivation. I can get the children to do what they have to do, but I can't get them to want to do it. And I thought, right, that is what I'm going to do. And the journey has been 20 years long now. I have had the privilege of going into people's homes and working out, initially, an assessment for the children, because, to start with, didn't have a clue what I was going to do. I remember my very first client came along and she said to me, Oh, great, you're leaving teaching. Will you be a minder? My son's minder is leaving the school, and they are thinking of excluding him because he doesn't pay attention and he doesn't this. And I thought, I'm not going from almost headship to being someone's minder. And I said, Absolutely not. I said, but I'll teach him to concentrate. And then I thought, What have I just said?


Lesley Logan 5:58  

The show says, Take messy action, be it till you see it so like that is right there everyone, if you've ever done that, you have done you have been being it till you saw it.


Gail Hugman 6:11  

So and remember, each time I would say to someone, I'm going to teach them that I knew they were going to pay me for this and so I've got to deliver. With that particular child, and I can't say, oh, I had a magic wand, and it happened overnight, but I realized that when we educate children nowadays, it's very two dimensional, and it is almost you give them a screen, or you give them a book, or you talk to them, but you don't do enough practical exercises. And so that very first boy, who was 11, I had a little rim in my garden on the edge of the grass, it was one brick all the way around. It was only small. And I said to him, I want you to walk on that brick edge. And of course, he thought it was very funny, and he did it, but he kept falling and coming off it. And I said, I want you to walk on there with your hands on your head, and when I could see, after a few attempts, that he was actually focused, I said to him, what you're now feeling is called concentration, and that is what you need in school. And I said when you are walking up the driveway to your school, because I knew the school, I want you to say to yourself, I am walking the path of focus and concentration until you get into your classroom, and I asked the school if they would mind keeping him. I told them what I was trying to do, and I would phone him every night after school and check that he had improved. Now, as I say, it wasn't, you know, overnight, but that boy was not excluded from school. He went on to pass his exams. It was, I would say, three or four months before he actually would be more focused and I wasn't in the room. That's what amazed me. 


Lesley Logan 8:35  

That's amazing. 


Gail Hugman 8:36  

So that started my journey of if I can teach children, I couldn't. I didn't, I didn't have a wall to take with me. 


Lesley Logan 8:45  

Yeah, yeah. 


Gail Hugman 8:46  

So I thought, how can I do this in other people's homes? So you get a glass of water, and you fill it as full as you can, preferably, mother's best glass, and you say, I want you to walk from this side of the kitchen to that side of the kitchen without spilling any and then you have the same effect. You are walking the path of focus and concentration what you're now feeling we call concentration, and I have used this exercise, or exercises like it, to teach children about self control, about being focused, about being in that state when they're in school. And I had to write books about it for parents, because I thought every parent needs to know how to do this


Lesley Logan 9:43  

right, because they're getting calls from the school that your kids being disruptive, or your kid and look, we there are neurodivergent children. There's different ways of learning, but being told all these things, and then they're trying to figure it out themselves, and it becomes just yelling and why can't you concentrate in school? But no one's teaching them to concentrate. You know, it's teaching them the feeling.


Gail Hugman 10:03  

And the listening. When you say to a child, listen, I walked into a classroom, and on the wall was a poster about listening, good listening, and it had little pictures like this, cross-legged and I thought, How is a child meant to learn to listen? From that poster added to which industry or commerce spends millions teaching adults to listen? Why? Why? I thought, why don't we teach children to listen? And I remember my books are full of stories. I remember a child at one of the top London schools I was asking to repeat a question, and I said to him, you know, go outside, get your jacket, or get your jacket, go outside and bring something in. And I said, repeat that to me. And this child was nine and a half 10 years old. So he said, put your jacket on and go outside. No, where I want every single word. So I repeated the sentence. I didn't get all emotional about it. I didn't get annoyed. I just repeated the question, so can you say it back to me? So we had another go. Didn't work, so I had another go. And these, these are firsts. So I did it again. Now it took nine attempts. He started to giggle because he realized that he wasn't getting it. And to my horror, his father had been listening outside the room, and when I left, his father said to me, I would never have believed that if I had not heard it with my and I said, when we talk about listening to children, we don't talk about the process. And when we say, are you listening, they think, yes, I'm hearing. And we have to start to talk about process. What is the process that is going on in your head when you're listening? So that's how it started. And then what developed was, how do I get a child to engage in school? You know when a child says, Why should I favorite question of every parent, right? Why should I? 


Lesley Logan 12:46  

Yeah. And then they say, because I said, so. 


Gail Hugman 12:51  

Yeah. I remember a boy doing this to me went just towards the end of teaching. He came into my class as a new boy quite late in the year, and he was having a difficult time, and I said something to him, and he stormed out of the room, and I stormed after him, and I said, come back in that classroom, because I'm responsible for him. And he said, Why should I? And I thought, I said, good question, and I went back into the classroom. As I went, I said, wait there. And I thought, why should he? Why should he? And there are a lot of questions children have in the heat of the moment. Why should he, in that particular instance, I went back outside because I didn't know this boy, and I said, You don't know me, but I am responsible for you while you're here, and the reason you should come back in the classroom is because I need to be sure that you're safe, and I would like a little respect, and I will give you some. You followed me in and it's nobody explained it because I said, I could have said because I said, So, but then it doesn't get you anywhere.


Lesley Logan 14:11  

Yeah, you're correct. You're you're extremely correct. And also, like, it doesn't, it doesn't develop trust. So then anything else you want to teach them. They're like, who told who made this person, the person I have to learn from. My father is a traffic school, like a he, I don't know if you have these in London, but he's a crossing guard, right? So the school let's out, and he's yes, yes, yes. So he's new at it, and he this is, this is his first school year doing it, and they had him at an elementary school, and they switched him to this high school, and the city council person was watching one day, and the principal was there, and they go, oh, like, how's it going? How are the kids treating you? And they're watching the kids, like, fist bump my dad and like, say something nice. And my dad's like, asked him how there's how was the game last week? And they're like, how did you, and it's two weeks, get these kids to, like, respect you. And he was like, I respected them first. Yeah, yeah. And I think, like, that's the hard part, because also it requires patience and a bit of self awareness. Like you had to have the awareness to go, okay, hold on. Let me think about that. But I think, like a lot of people, don't give themselves the time to do that. I think, I think a lot of parents are overwhelmed.


Gail Hugman 15:29  

I'm not surprised. And what came out, I remember sitting with another boy who was a bit why should I ish? And I thought, what can I say to this child? Because I don't know how I have been graced by so many wonderful clients who just handed the children over and said give me a result. Yeah. And I'd sit next to a child and think, What do I say to change the way they're thinking? And on one occasion, I sat with this boy, and I said, You do realize, don't you, that when you're born, you get not one, but two lives that got his attention. And I said, let me explain it this way. And I drew a diagram, and I said, Look, here's zero, and I drew a line, and I put, here's 100 and this is where you're born, at zero, and we all hope we're going to get to 100 or beyond. And I said, but between zero and 100 you have a job to do. Do you know what that job is? And they look at you and it's like, learn? I say your job is to develop to be the very best thing that you can be, the very best human being that you can be. That's what nature wants. I said, unfortunately, you've been born into a world where the environment isn't necessarily all helpful, and so you have two lives. You have an inside life, which I call your natural life, and that is automatic for every single person on the planet. So you start as a child, then you become a nightmare, then you become a young adult, then you become a you know, proper, grown up, and then you become a senior before you go home. And I go through this process with them, I say that is the same. Doesn't matter what color you are, doesn't matter where you live in the world, doesn't matter who your parents are. That is the same for every single child. I suppose your wildlife is completely different to every other person, and you are to look at the world which is full of good things and not good things. And that's why you're given parents at the beginning, because your parents have been here long enough to recognize the not good things, and your job is to grow and develop your natural life by choosing things to do in the world that are going to help you do that. So if you want to be a patient person, you could paint pictures, or you could make pots, or you could learn to be an athlete, or you could do Pilates. It depends what you want to grow in yourself and what you think will help you do that. And I talk to them about school this way, when they say, Why do I have to do algebra?


Lesley Logan 19:05  

You're so good at making a teenage boy's voice.


Gail Hugman 19:11  

And I said, Well, algebra is fantastic because it teaches your brain logic and reasoning. So it's not the algebra you want, it's the logic and reasoning. And so I've learned through all these messy actions what to say to those questions of, why should I? Who cares? So what? These things I think develop, because children are intuitively born to grow, born to develop. They run into all sorts of things in the world that knock them off that path. And I totally believe know you can correct me if you like, but I'm probably going to continue to believe that when we're born, we're born with this massive potential, and providing we don't get stopped by negativity of some kind, we can easily be put back onto that line of development if we're given the right tools to do it. And that's what my job is. Helping them flourish means putting them back. So if they are suffering because there's been a divorce and they don't understand, they don't understand, then I don't talk about the divorce. I talk about look over here for some success, because we are natural born healers. I know you have to work at it, Lesley, I have to work at it. I was in Pilates this morning. I saw Sam, I said, I'm going to tell Lesley I was in Pilates this morning, but that's me healing me, and we are natural healers. So children will recover very quickly if we can put them back on that natural line, so that they are focused on what they are growing in themselves and choosing to do in the world to help them grow, not and the most important thing, I don't want them to change, to be something they think the world wants. 


Lesley Logan 21:37  

Right. Okay, I have a couple questions. One, so assuming, like, everyone can't call you tomorrow, maybe they can, right, like, can parents help them get put back on the natural line? Does it have to be someone other than them? Does that have to be a third party, or can a parent actually do what you did, which is, like, have the thought, like, Okay, how do I have an honest thought with this kid? And, like, put them back on that. How do you do that? And then the other question went out of my head, so it'll come back when you answer.


Gail Hugman 22:17  

I think what parents need to realize is that this person in front of them is the most fantastic, creative, sensitive, intelligent form of life on this planet, and step back and stop your reaction, which is born in you because of the culture that we're in step back and have what I call, sorry dads, it's a mommy moment. It's one of those moments where you talk human to human, because they do have those moments every you know, I told a little boy, I'll never forget this. One of my early lessons in private practice. I told a little boy that the year before he was born, the planet was here, and I drew a circle, and I said it had countries on it, and I drew little shapes. I'm not, not an artist. I drew little shapes. I said it had giraffes on it, and donkeys and butterflies. And I was drawing as I was talking. And I said it had all these wonderful things, trees, and it had 6 billion, however, many 100,000 people on it. Your mum was here, your dad was here. You hadn't been created yet. And then, wee, you arrived, and you changed the world forever. Now you can see it's really busy here, and not everyone is happy. Do you want to make the world better or not? And he's he said to me, I want to make it better. I want to make it better. So I said, Well, you ask your mum how she felt when you were born, because you changed her life forever. You changed your dad's life forever. And they loved it, maybe not straight away, but they loved it. And after I'd had this whole lesson. This was that I went through with this child. I got a phone call later that night from his mother, and she was crying, and she said, I had to call you because my son told me what you said to him, and he said, I want to thank you for having me, Mummy. 


Lesley Logan 23:07  

Oh I'm gonna cry. 


Gail Hugman 23:58  

Thank you for having me. Isn't that amazing? And I when I look at a child, I mean, my first, my very first book, was actually a letter to the head teacher. When I said I was going to retire or resign from teacher, I wanted to go privately. And I got up in the middle of the night, and I wrote this letter. I thought, what is it that's different? Because he asked me, I want to know what you do, and what is it? What is it I do that's different? I teach English, I teach maths, I teach reading, and I come up in the middle of the night, and I thought, it's not what I do, it's how I think. That's what's different. I think that each child, as I said, is highly intelligent without any help. They may not have the language to express it, but they they are so clever, they are so creative. You know, I told the children in the school once, you have to be economical with paper, because we're short of money and I don't want to see any paper wasted. So please don't waste any paper. Carry on with the lesson. At the break, a little boy came to me and he said, Miss, I have got a way that you can get more paper. So I said, Oh, really, how do you do that? He said, what you do? He said, you get a plain piece of paper and you go to the photocopier and you copy it. Now isn't that clever? So I got a plain piece of paper, I took it to the photocopier, and I explained to him why I'd laughed, and he said, Ah, but isn't that that was an eight year old child.


Lesley Logan 26:49  

So one of the things I loved when I met you Gail is like, I I don't have any children, but I am amazed by like my the children that I've been able to have in my life in different ways, like my niece and nephew. I remember, like, the my nephew is, like, two and a half years old, maybe just two, and I was holding him, and he looked at the picture, and he goes, That's my dad. That's Ella. And I said, Who is this? He's like, That's bubba. He pointed himself out, like two years old. And I was like, I have no idea. Maybe that's what two year olds do. But I was impressed and that he could, like, look at a picture. I knew all this. He gets this Christmas gift, he puts it on, he starts performing. I was like, he's amazing, like, that is, like, this kid is just, like, got this creativity in him, right? Like, all these different things. And I taught these 11 year old girls, and they have all these thoughts going on in their head. And I was just like, Oh, my God, this is you are why I'm not gonna have children, but I'm amazed by what you're doing, and it scares the hell out of me, but, like, but I also, I see all this, and you're like, you know, these kids have all these they're so clever, they're born so smart, and then something happens, right? Like, like you said, there could be a negative thing that happens, or divorce or or they go to school, and they're not given that respect or that challenge. They're not taught the focus or taught to listen and it goes and then they become 18 year olds because they just keep getting passed along. And so I wonder, like, is it the mummy moments, or is it, how do parents facilitate this being that already has a lot of it that it needs like, is there.


Lesley Logan 28:21  

It's got everything. It's got everything. 


Lesley Logan 28:25  

I guess how do they not fuck it up Gail? 


Gail Hugman 28:27  

Yeah, right. Mine did. My confidence was gone by the age of 11 because I failed an exam I was expected to pass. And then I met a boy of five years old, who could not sit still, who did not make eye contact, who talked all the time. He was extraordinary, and his parents very intelligent. They had three boys very close together, and they said, We don't know what to do with him, you know, can you help? And they said he was autistic. They said he was this, they said he was that. And I said, Well, I don't think he's autistic. I don't know why I said that. And I said that to them. I don't know why I'm saying that, but I don't think he's autistic, but he is something. And they said, you know, a child doesn't normally like this boy ask for Encyclopedia Britannica to be read to him at bedtime when he's four. That's unusual. And this child I stayed with 18 years until he went to university, because his parents would allow me to try different ways to engage him. And the first one you know, talk about neurodiverse people. Try to control the children you cannot control children. See this right here, that's proof you cannot control that's how I got it. Trying to control them. You have to teach them to control themselves by showing them right and wrong, right being what's good for them. And no, don't do that, because it annoys me. I would say to a child, if you do that, I'm going to get irritated. Is that okay with you? Can you change it? Yeah. So instead of me trying to control them, I'll tell them the consequence of what they're doing, and say that's what's going to happen. Is that okay with you? And it seems, I mean, this is why I wrote the books, because I've been trying to get my message out there for 20 years. I couldn't articulate it at first. I just knew it had to be different.


Lesley Logan 31:04  

Yeah, I love what you're saying, because it's for the Pilates instructors I've taught listening like this is what I say. Joe Pilate never said don't. Never said don't do that, don't, don't put your shoulders in your ears, or don't do that. He never said that. He would tell you what to do, like, he would. 


Gail Hugman 31:18  

Exactly. That's how brains work. Well, that's what my motto for parents is don't, "Don't do." Don't say don't. Do tell them what to do. Somebody said to me, can you tell me how to stop my children trashing the lounge, because that's my special space, and they've got a playroom, but they don't play in there. They play in the lounge, and they keep trashing it. So I said, Have you told them? Have you told them it's your special place? Have you asked them to help you look after it? 


Lesley Logan 31:56  

Yes, this is okay. So I take so, as we all know, and those, in case you missed it, I have no children. So when I tell people about like, creating a schedule that allows them to put themselves first and prioritize themselves, they go, must be easy for you. You don't have children. Okay? I have three companies, you guys. So let's just I'm busy too. Okay, I'm busy too. We all have our own busys, but when one of the pushbacks I get is always from the moms who, by the way, have partners who can participate and don't, and it's so you know, that's a whole different therapist. It's a whole different thing. But this one particular woman said to me, Well, I would love to go on a walk in the morning. I see your walks every morning, and I would love to do that, but there's too much to do to get the kids to school. I said, Oh, how old are your children? And they're 12 and 14. They're 12 and 15. Thank you, Gail. Thank you, Gail. Thank you. It took I was like, okay, thankfully part of this face is Botox. So the reaction was, you know, less. But I was like, I was like, oh, but do they want to do adult things? Like, they want to go to the movies with their friends, they want to take the train, they want to do adult things. And she's like, Yeah. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, do you think that they could get themselves ready for school in the morning? Like, have you like, I'm assuming they are, like, able bodied 12 and 15 year olds. I can't, like, I'm not talking about the ones who have special needs. I'm talking like, able bodied. She's like, yes, I said, Have you asked them, hey, I would like to go for a walk in the morning. What can we do the night before to make sure you get to school on time. Like, have you, like, asked them and guess what the next day, Gail, she went for a walk in the morning.


Gail Hugman 33:28  

Yeah. I know it's not rocket science. So the thing is, I say to parents sometimes, this child came to join your life, not to take it over.


Lesley Logan 33:47  

That's so good. 


Gail Hugman 33:48  

Teach them what they need to know to be as independent as they can be at every single stage, because that's what a little human being craves. You know, I had a child I was teaching, and he had a little baby sister of four. Well, I say little baby, it sounds cute. She was a feisty little thing, and she used to stand in the doorway, and I had these roll up pencil cases, and as I was finishing the lesson, I'd be about to roll it up, and she'd come running in, me do, me do, me do. And I would give it to her so that she could roll it up. Because all they crave is responsibility, and they want to be part of the tribe they see grown ups, and they want to be that. So please teach them that don't do it for them. So many parents will do it for them. Yes, up to about four. Why? You can get your bag ready for school. You know, do you really need me to do that? What is wrong that you can't do that? That's a problem, isn't it? How you and sometimes the teenagers, I will say, Okay, do you want to live at home all your life? And they will say no. Well, do you want your parents to tell you what to do, or would you like to make decisions for yourself? And they said, Well, I want to do it myself. I said, Well, what can you do to reassure your parents that they have done a good job with you and you can do that, and that starts a whole different discussion. So you take your youngster and you have those discussions, what do I need to do to help you get the results you want? You know, homework. People will fight over homework. And I say, Look, if you go into an exam, you have got 40 minutes, an hour, whatever it is, if you spend two hours doing homework, you are not training that brain to perform in an hour's exam. So if the homework is meant to take 30 minutes, give them 30 minutes. If the homework isn't finished in 30 minutes, tell them you will go with them to the teacher and be there while they explain either it's too hard or they didn't focus, or whatever the reason so that they are responsible for the homework. 


Lesley Logan 36:38  

Right. You're you're supporting, you're the guy, but you're not. Yes. You know this all. I mean, like, first of all, it sounds amazing. And also, and like, it's, it's not simple because it's not simple, but it's also, I look at the like we talk about these everyone blames the reason why, you know, Gen Z and these kids are living with their parents as, like, it's a cost thing. And yes, yes, life is more expensive now, but my mom was a school teacher, a fifth grade school teacher for some of these kids who would be in that generation, and she had to stop sending home. She would not their, their their paper that was due in fifth grade. She made time in class for them to handwrite it, because she didn't want the parents to do it, and the parents were like, well, I need to be able to see how it's how they're doing. And she said, No, I will do that. I will tell they can tell you how it's going. Why don't you ask them how it's going, but they're going to write it in class, because she could tell the parents were doing the homework. So she said to start eliminating homework so that kids wouldn't be responsible for the homework. And so I think, like, part of it is that parents almost taking, maybe it's ego, maybe, I don't know, because I'm not a parent, but like, they're not the representation that you think, like, I feel like there's this, like, Oh, if my kid gets bad grades, it's a reflection upon me, versus like, How can I help them figure out the grades that they could get? You know, like they there's this weird bulldozing thing happen? I'll do it for them. And then you wonder why they live in the basement. And then you blame it on costs, but it's but it's also because they have never been responsible for things. 


Gail Hugman 38:09  

Yes, and there is when we're born we have something called executive function skills. We all need them. We all need them for learning and for living. And in school we don't teach them necessarily, we expect the children to have them. The first one that I teach often self-control. The next one focus and attention. The next one organization, and if parents would focus on teaching those skills, then the children would do better if they're organized, if they're able to manage time. And that's the whole thing about homework. You know, if they if the teacher said, spend 10 minutes on it, spend 10 minutes on it. And if you're looking out of the window, and that's supposed to be spent on homework, then you go in tomorrow and say, I'm sorry I looked out the window, and you take the consequence, because parents will say, if you don't do your homework, you won't have dessert, and I couldn't see the connection.


Lesley Logan 39:14  

Yeah, yeah, right, they're not seeing the connection. Like, that's like, that's not how what the habits coaching that I did, like he always said, rewards are not how habits are created, because they're too often too far away from the actual thing that you're doing. So yeah, yeah. Okay. Gail, I feel like everyone, I hope I have, I hope everyone like who has a parent friend listens to this. Because look, I think raising a child is probably one of the hardest things that people ever do. I taught 11. 


Gail Hugman 39:41  

Absolutely. I haven't got any either. 


Lesley Logan 39:45  

I taught I had, I had these two girls that I taught from 11 to 16, and I have a call with one of them on Friday, who's now 20 years old. Oh my god. And like, I mean, like, I don't know how I don't have gray hairs just from the five years. Like, raising her twice, two hours a week. But like so I definitely don't want to make make light of it, but I also can't sit here and guide women on being it till they see it, if the number one reason they say they don't have time for themselves is because they're doing all these things for their children when we know it's that's not what's going to help your kid thrive, and it's not helping the parent either.


Gail Hugman 40:22  

No, absolutely, you have to remember, between birth and the age of three, that brain in your child, you give birth to a baby, you give birth to a brain, and that brain will have made something like 3 trillion connections without any help from you. And by the age of three, our stress response is already determined. Isn't that extraordinary? 


Lesley Logan 40:50  

Extraordinary. 


Gail Hugman 40:51  

And so what a parent needs to be looking at or the biggest question, this is one of my tips, the biggest question that I'm always asking myself, What is this child actually learning from what they're now doing? So if you are fighting with them over homework, what are they actually learning? That you're unreasonable, that they've got to do it themselves. What are they actually learning if, if you are running around after them, giving them their bags, giving doing everything for them, picking up their dirty washing, and what are they actually learning from that? So take a step back, get a glass of wine. I don't mind, but think, what is my child actually learning, and what do they need? Because this world is changing so quickly, they will need self-control whatever happens. They will need to be able to plan whatever happens. You know these things. And I saw somebody on TV yesterday talking about, AI is the latest kind of phase of technology, so they still need these skills, yeah, and if you rely on all this mechanical stuff, I mean, it's wonderful, because I can talk to you and you're thousands of miles away, but we still have to develop those skills to be able to live a fruitful life and get to the end having achieved the very best we could be. 


Lesley Logan 42:37  

Gail, I think I could talk to you forever. We did go into your Be It Action Items already, I know. We're going to do a quick like, where can people find you, follow you, work with you, get your books. Will the books help them be better at this?


Gail Hugman 42:49  

Yes, definitely. This, this one and this one, Making the Pennies Drop, and 100 Things to Learn Before You're 10, are the two critical ones. A Short and Simple Book for the Whys. Very little. That is the letter I wrote to my head teacher. And this is a very special book, and it is my latest book. It's called Little Hum. Have we got time for me to just read the beginning? 


Lesley Logan 43:18  

Yeah, go ahead. 


Gail Hugman 43:19  

Tiny bit. Okay, once upon a time, far away in the universe where the stars always twinkle and the angels do the dusting, there lived a young, unseen longing, and his name was Little Hum. We cannot tell you exactly what he looked like, because even to this day, no one has ever really seen a longing, young or old. Now, as is the way with young longings, Little Hum wanted something more than anything in the whole universe, even more than Christmas. Little Hum wanted an adventure. He knew these things could be arranged. And Little Hum is the story of us all. It is to do with the human core and to get his adventure, he discovers he needs a body.


Lesley Logan 44:15  

Oh my gosh, okay. Well, clearly every single expecting parent and parent in my life is getting books for Christmas.


Gail Hugman 44:21  

I'm on Amazon. You can get the books on Amazon, and my website is lessonsalive.com. That's me. 


Lesley Logan 44:30  

I'm so grateful for you. I'm grateful for these. If you have any other tips you want to add to this episode, I'm happy to listen to them. If you feel really good about what you gave us, it's so much good stuff. So Be It Action Items for everyone are in here. But what do you think, Gail?


Gail Hugman 44:45  

I think, I think, yes, I've told you a lot. I don't remember now, it all goes like that. 


Lesley Logan 44:52  

Yeah. It's all right. They're great, 


Gail Hugman 44:53  

Yeah. I hope if there are any questions, you can message them to me and I will answer them if I can, if any of your audience have questions, I'm happy to answer.


Lesley Logan 45:03  

Yeah, I hope they do. I really hope they do, because I do think that there is an into there's there's a connection between these women being the best versions of themselves and the pressure they put on themselves as parents that are not helping them or their kiddos. And I just want to take that pressure off, because it's this weird pressure that isn't helpful. And there isn't a parenting class. When you go through this thing, you just like, are supposed to know, and then they put this guilt on you, and especially, it's more heavy on the women, and I don't and that, one, that's not fair. But also we don't need to pass it on to anyone else. We just get rid of it. And what if we could teach like this? And I think it's wonderful skill, especially with all the stuff that's changing. Obviously, your kids are going to learn different things in school than you did because of technology, but they could use those three things that you said in that tip. (inaudible) Yeah, those skills. Gail, Gail Hugman, I know your books, you're so amazing. Thank you so much for being here. You guys, how are you going to use these tips in your life? Let Gail know. Send this to a friend. Send this to a parent in your life. If you feel like your parents did this for you, go thank them. That would be a nice thing for them. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. 


Lesley Logan 46:11  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.


Brad Crowell 46:54  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 46:59  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.


Brad Crowell 47:03  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.


Lesley Logan 47:10  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.


Brad Crowell 47:13  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.



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