485. Secrets to Transforming the Way You Communicate in Love
Building strong relationships requires intentional communication, but many couples struggle to connect emotionally. In this episode, Lesley and Brad explore the insightful conversation with Kristal DeSantis, a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, who shares powerful tools to improve relationships. Learn about the Heartbeat Exercise, the four positions of conversation, and how redefining masculinity can help partners understand and support each other better. Whether you're looking to enhance your current relationship or prepare for a future one, this episode offers valuable strategies to deepen your connections.
If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co.
And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.
In this episode you will learn about:
- How the Heartbeat Exercise strengthens communication and emotional intimacy.
- Why the way men and women are socialized affects relationship dynamics.
- The four positions of conversation and how to navigate them effectively.
- How redefining masculinity can lead to healthier relationships.
- Why collaboration is more powerful than compromise in building strong partnerships.
Episode References/Links:
- Cambodia October 2025 Retreat Waitlist - https://crowsnestretreats.com
- Pilates Spring Training - https://opc.me/events
- Pilates Studio Growth Accelerator - https://prfit.biz/accelerator
- Accessories Flashcard Waitlist - https://opc.me/flashcardwaitlist
- Strong: A Relationship Field Guide for the Modern Man - https://a.co/d/4tiDC0B
Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC
Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey
Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship
Resources:
- Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!
- Lesley Logan website
- Be It Till You See It Podcast
- Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan
- Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube
- Profitable Pilates
Follow Us on Social Media:
Episode Transcript:
Brad Crowell 0:00
Imagine it as a heartbeat, the ups, the downs and the points where you connect. How it works, point of pride, ask your partner what they are proud of, and then validate it. Point of pain, hold space for their struggles without fixing. Point of pleasure, celebrate moments of joy or connection.
Lesley Logan 0:19
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.
Lesley Logan 1:02
Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the eye-opening convo I had with our guest, Kristal DeSantis in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that one, you should, especially if you're married or wanting to be married to a dude, because I think it was just a really, but if you want to be married to a woman, you know, also there's stuff in there. (inaudible) Communication is universal and I think we all can.
Brad Crowell 1:28
I feel like it's also like a social commentary on how we value ourselves, (inaudible) you know, or the stories that we've been told. How about that?
Lesley Logan 1:36
Oh, the stories we've been told, the stories we've been raised with. And, you know, we're all taught different things, and so you might be dating someone who's taught something different than you, and so you gotta get on the same page.
Brad Crowell 1:46
Yeah, honestly, I was a little concerned when I read the topic. I was like, oh, there's a doctor female who's coaching men. That just seems weird, but I really appreciated her approach to the conversation and the high level on both sides of the conversation about, you know, we're like, almost like two ships passing in the night from the way that we were raised. Anyway, I'm doing a lot of hinting at, you should go back and listen to the last episode if you didn't already.
Lesley Logan 2:14
Also, she wrote a great book, so we are to give it out on our tours (inaudible) people. I feel like it's really great and I, too, was a bit concerned. I was like a woman coaching on what it means to be a loving man, but she wasn't condescending in any way. And it wasn't like they're wrong or you're wrong. It felt really welcoming. I just really enjoyed it.
Brad Crowell 2:19
I am curious. I didn't read the book yet, but I'm curious because the conversation, at least, was more about the consternation that has been created by the shift in female empowerment, and then the messaging not being.
Lesley Logan 2:53
Delivered.
Brad Crowell 2:54
Yeah, I'm just trying to pick the right words here, because the messaging for women has been A but the messaging for men has not changed or been impacted or shifted, and so now there is a disconnect happening.
Lesley Logan 3:09
And well, let's just get into it in a second.
Brad Crowell 3:11
We're gonna get into it, y'all. We're gonna get into it.
Lesley Logan 3:11
Because I have some other thoughts to say on that. So, okay, today is February 13th. It's happy almost Valentine's Day, and it's Self-Love Day. You know what? There's a really awesome sweatshirt that I'm not gonna buy, but it's about like Cupid was in a pissed off mood. I feel like that's where everyone is in 2025 right now. And that was just a dark satire, and I loved it. But anyways, it's Self-Love Day. And you should love yourself before you can love other people, just kind of how it goes. Because if you've been in a crappy relationship, you probably could tell that you weren't really loving yourself very much. That's what the therapist would probably say. So, at any rate, Self-Love Day is an annual celebration to preach and understand the importance of self-love. I feel like that's using the word in a definition, but we're gonna let that go.
Brad Crowell 3:53
Well, I decided to remedy that. So keep going.
Lesley Logan 3:55
Self-Love is one of the most powerful forms of love. It is something that we have coded inside us. Proponents of self-love believe that it could strengthen a person's feeling of being loved. Is there an opponent to self-love? Who is telling people not to love themselves?
Brad Crowell 4:13
Oh, maybe it's like the people who are like serve others. You're always last.
Lesley Logan 4:17
Oh, yeah, yeah, uh-huh.
Brad Crowell 4:19
They probably would argue that they're not arguing against self-love, but yeah.
Lesley Logan 4:23
Yeah. The date coincides with Valentine's week, and is celebrated so that people can be strong enough to love themselves by the next day and not need a romantic partner on February 14th.
Brad Crowell 4:33
It happens in a day, y'all. Just one day, you're good to go.
Lesley Logan 4:35
So Brad wanted just fill us in (inaudible) yeah, Brad wanted to fill us in on what self-love is exactly. Thank you, Brad, why don't you step in here?
Brad Crowell 4:44
That was a terrible question. Read it like a question.
Lesley Logan 4:47
Hey, Brad.
Brad Crowell 4:47
Hey.
Lesley Logan 4:48
Want to fill us in on what self-love is exactly?
Brad Crowell 4:51
Yes, I would be so excited about that. Self-love is the practice of valuing, caring for and respecting your self. It involves recognizing your worth and treating yourself with kindness, compassion and forgiveness. Self-love is not selfish or narcissistic. Rather, it is about fostering a healthy relationship with yourself which can positively impact your mental, emotional and physical well-being. Now.
Lesley Logan 5:18
I have some key aspects of self-love.
Brad Crowell 5:20
Yeah, I was gonna say, how do you practice self-love?
Lesley Logan 5:23
So, one, is acceptance. Embracing who you are, including your strengths, flaws and imperfections.
Brad Crowell 5:30
Yeah. Another is self-care. And I know we talk about this often on the pod, prioritizing yourself, physical, emotional, mental health, with activities like anything that actually lights you up. Could be sleeping an extra hour. It could be eating right. It could be getting your nails done.
Lesley Logan 5:46
Also, setting boundaries is a key aspect of self-love. Protecting your energy and time by saying no to things that don't align with your values or well-being.
Brad Crowell 5:53
Yeah, could be positive self-talk, replacing self-criticism with encouraging or kind thoughts. That's really hard to identify when you're berating yourself sometimes in the moment, but if you can catch yourself, great.
Lesley Logan 6:03
Forgiveness, letting go of past mistakes and treating yourself with understanding.
Brad Crowell 6:07
Yeah, that's a hard one. That's a hard one, especially with our generations of guilt that you just like slathered on children, and then we carry that into the rest of our lives. Forgiveness. Or if you did something in your past that you're shocked that you did. I have instances in my memory like that that I can't let go of, and that forgiveness has been hard to be like I made that decision. It wasn't a decision that I like or agree with today, and I'm moving past it. I am not that person now, but yeah, that forgiveness, that's tough.
Lesley Logan 6:39
And gratitude, appreciating, oh, I skipped one.
Brad Crowell 6:42
Yeah, growth. Being open to learning, improving or pursuing personal goals. We're all about that, of course. And then finally.
Lesley Logan 6:47
Gratitude, appreciating your journey and the unique qualities that make you who you are. Practicing self-love allows you to build resilience, maintain healthy relationships and live in a more fulfilling life. It's an ongoing journey rather than destination.
Brad Crowell 7:00
Yeah.
Lesley Logan 7:01
So let us know how you're loving up on yourself today and every day.
Brad Crowell 7:04
Yeah. How do you practice self-love?
Lesley Logan 7:05
Yeah. We want to know. Send it to Be It Pod so we can share them with people who need ideas other than these brilliant ones. (inaudible)
Brad Crowell 7:09
Yeah, and maybe it'll be on the wins.
Lesley Logan 7:11
Yeah, we'd love that. Let's do that. We are almost to Cambodia again. So when this comes out, we're leaving, I think the Monday after this, so.
Brad Crowell 7:11
It will be a couple of days, yes.
Lesley Logan 7:13
Yeah, we're gonna go. So you should come with us on October, because it's kind of too late for you to come with us now, I'm just gonna be honest.
Lesley Logan 7:22
Well, look, you are welcome to fly straight to Cambodia.
Lesley Logan 7:31
Yeah, Brad will figure it out.
Brad Crowell 7:32
(inaudible) We will make it work. However.
Lesley Logan 7:34
October is great.
Brad Crowell 7:35
More realistic. October this year, October 12th to 17th, we're gonna be back in Cambodia at our place. And by the way, we have been able to continue to work on our place, our property, the rooms, make it nicer, cooler, just more amazing. We've got some incredible partners. We have made some incredible adjustments to the trip that I can't be more excited about. We just got a new boat ride and the Lotus Garden.
Lesley Logan 8:00
Oh my God, I saw a reel of the Lotus garden. And I was like, that's so beautiful. And I was like, oh wait, we do that every time. Oh, my God, but it's so funny, because I'm like, look how beautiful that is. I'm like, wait, that's where we go. That's what we do.
Brad Crowell 8:11
Yeah, so we want you to come join us. Go to crowsnestretreats.com, crowsnestretreats.com.
Lesley Logan 8:17
In March, we'll be home for just a little bit, and then we get to go to Denver. Brad and I gonna drive into the POT in Denver, and you can come. It's a great for Pilates instructors to get CECs and connect with other Pilates instructors. It's really, really a lot of fun. We'll have a booth there.
Brad Crowell 8:32
Yeah, we'll be hanging out. Lesley will actually be teaching. I will be manning the booth and generally just kicking it. Yeah, that's gonna be super fun. We're really excited to be heading back to the Denver area. And then in April, mark your calendars y'all, April 27th to May 3rd, April 27th to May 3rd, we are doing.
Lesley Logan 8:51
Spring training.
Brad Crowell 8:52
Spring training.
Lesley Logan 8:53
Pilates spring training. Who knew?
Brad Crowell 8:54
What is that?
Lesley Logan 8:55
So it's a play on baseball spring training, but nothing to do with it. We're not doing anything with baseball.
Brad Crowell 9:03
It's gonna be a home run derby.
Lesley Logan 9:04
Yeah, assuming something like that. So basically, years ago, everyone loved that week long Control Your Balance challenge, and so this is kind of like that, but something for everyone. So there's myself and the six other OPC teachers doing live classes on the mat reformer. There'll be a tower and a Wunda Chair class during the whole week around the same theme. So there'll be different levels, there's gonna be several classes at different time zones. So no matter where you live, you'll be able to attend live. And if you can't attend live, there'll be access to the replays for a limited time. It's essentially so you can experience OPC without having to commit to OPC just yet. So you get to experience what it's like to learn from different teachers on the same theme. You need to be on different pieces of equipment. You get to have that community aspect and that Q & A without you having to go into the app. So we're basically like bringing the experience to you.
Brad Crowell 9:57
Awesome. I love that. If you are a Pilates business owner. That's anyone, if you are taking your own clients and getting paid by them directly, that will be small business owners, medium, even large business owners with multiple locations. I want you to come join me for a free webinar that I've been hosting called the Sudio Growth Accelerator. Don't be thrown off by that. If you don't have a brick and mortar, it's okay. I want you to come join me. It's the growth accelerator. Go to prfit.biz/accelerator. That's profit without the O dot biz slash accelerator, and we're going to be covering three big secrets that Lesley and I have learned over the last seven years of coaching more than 2500 businesses just like yours. We've boiled it down to these three big things, and then we get a chance to talk and Q & A and do all sorts of fun stuff. Because these concepts, we didn't know them when we were getting started, we just kind of had to figure them out. And then over time, having had thousands of conversations with people just like you, it's really helped us create a path that you can take. And I want to share all that with you. So come join me, prfit.biz/accelerator. And then finally.
Lesley Logan 11:06
The last and final deck of the flashcard series is the Accessories Deck. And this is something that anyone can have, because more than 70% of it is things you can use around the house or make yourself. And so if you want to get this deck at 30% off, you have to be on the waitlist, because that's where the presale price is going to be, soon.
Brad Crowell 11:26
And only, only there, we do not publicly post it.
Lesley Logan 11:30
And so if you are on our regular email list, you are not going to hear about the presale there. If you are on the opc.me/events for spring training, you will not hear about the presale there. You have to be on the specific, you raised your hand.
Brad Crowell 11:45
You did.
Lesley Logan 11:45
For this waitlist. So, opc.me/flashcardwaitlist. That's we're you're going to get the updates when that presale happens. As of right now, of this recording, we don't have a date picked, but I feel like we're going to be able to do March. The team is working really swiftly, so we're already on the editing stage as we speak, and so we're past the longest part of it. So, it's coming up, it's coming up quick.
Brad Crowell 12:08
It's gonna be good.
Lesley Logan 12:09
Okay. Before we get into Kristal's episode, we have an audience question.
Lesley Logan 12:13
Yeah, we sure do @goaltech_ontheroad asks on IG, hey, regarding the short box series on the reformer, should the legs touch the carrier or not? What differs?
Lesley Logan 12:26
When we were on tour, Brad, when we're at Virginia Beach, we did a post about the short box and how to use your legs and all that stuff there, and so this question came through there, and I thought that was really interesting, because for the teachers and Pilates-lovers listening, we have to stop thinking that things are so black and white, like, should the legs touch or not touch? I don't know. How tall are you? What box are you on? What reformer are you using? Where is the strap connecting on the equipment to? All these things matter, because if you're on a really tall box and you're a really short person, chances are your legs are going to touch, right? If you are a really tall person on a short box, like me, my calves touch carriage. They just do. Now, do my feet touch the frame? No, but depending on the equipment the box, if the strap is on top of the frame versus underneath, there's so many different things. I can't answer that for you, because it's going to depend. And the difference is.
Brad Crowell 12:26
It depends on the body.
Lesley Logan 13:09
Depends on the body. And so.
Brad Crowell 13:21
Depends on the box.
Lesley Logan 13:23
What I would just say is, are you connected to your center? Are your legs connected to your center? Or are you working in halves? Are you sliding around a lot when you're doing the exercise? That tells me you're not set up correctly. So if you feel like when you round back you slouch, you are. If you round back and your legs go with you, you're sliding. If you come up and your legs go forward, you're sliding. So the legs should be still on all the short box exercises. When you round back and up, or flat back and up, they should be still and they you should feel the hamstrings, the glutes, inner thighs, the outer hips. And so I would focus on that. Then what's touching what.
Brad Crowell 13:56
Yeah, I think it's good. That workshop, I remember it. And I think you're also, I think we were down in Huntington when you were talking about the.
Lesley Logan 14:03
Huntsville.
Brad Crowell 14:03
Huntsville, I mean, where the boxes were, like, people had them in the wrong position, and they were a little unbalanced. And then, the bodies were shorter and longer, and you were just talking about the general idea, the concept of it. Because, yeah, I mean, (inaudible).
Lesley Logan 14:16
We actually did a YouTube, we actually just did a YouTube video about where does the box go? It was a week ago, Sunday. Well, now that this is airing, no, it was months ago, but, it was a month ago. But if you're subscribed to our YouTube channel, that's where I answer questions about Pilates-inspired, I go way deeper into them. Unless you're an OPC member, then we get to go deeper on you and your practice on what you need. So thank you for this question. I hope that that helps. And.
Brad Crowell 14:40
Yeah, subscribe to our YouTube channel and stay in the loop on all that stuff, and stick around. We'll be right back. We're gonna dig into Kristal DeSantis and her book and all the things. It's gonna be great.
Brad Crowell 14:52
Okay, now let's talk about Kristal DeSantis. Kristal DeSantis is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist based out of Austin, Texas. She specializes in men's mental health, trauma recovery and sex therapy. She is the author of Strong: A Relationship Field Guide for the Modern Man, a groundbreaking resource aimed at bridging the gap in relationship dynamics by redefining healthy masculinity. With a passion for helping individuals and couples create deeper, more meaningful connections, Kristal brings a fresh, compassionate perspective into modern relationships.
Lesley Logan 15:25
Yeah, picking up a (inaudible) conversation, you were clearly raised in a household where your mom was like, anything they can do I can do better, like, that's how your mom was raised. So you were, your mom was on the men's soccer team or whatever. So, you were raised in a household where your masculinity wasn't based off of you being better than your partner, and I think that makes a big difference where, in some households, what they're modeled is not that women can be independent and have their own things and have their own dreams and be in collaboration with their husband. I'm not saying every other male is like that. I'm saying I think a lot of males are raised like that, and I also know that there are a lot of women raised to be timid flowers that can break at any moment. So I think all these different things can be true, and we live in this really weird world where we get to see how you were raised made you an adult human being. And then also, I just want to give credit to there's a lot of parents out there who did the best they can, and their son still turned out to be some part of, dickhead, or their daughters turned out to be an asshole. So you could also do the best you can, and it didn't work out. But to what Kristal was saying that I really loved, in the podcast, she mentioned, it's not compromise, it's collaboration. And I thought her example, this is about marriage, I thought her, in relationships, I thought her example was actually really cool. She said, when artists, two artists come together to collaborate on a project or a song, they're always creating something better than when they were alone, because they're working together. So when Lady Gaga worked with that really famous blues person or soul whatever, I'm forgetting the name, and they're super famous, so don't attack, Brad's already looking it up, but people were like, oh my God, she's gonna ruin the music. Tony Bennett. She's gonna ruin the music. No, the music is amazing, and Tony Bennett's amazing, but what they created together was more amazing what the two of them could do by themselves. And so that's what a relationship is.
Brad Crowell 17:11
Yeah. I think specifically with this point you were talking about how do you make a suggestion that somebody needs to go to therapy without it coming across as insensitive and commanding. She's clearly been through all of the conversations with people, and what she said is, like, how do you portray it in a way that doesn't sound like you're in trouble or you're going to see, you know, go sit in the corner. So I thought that was really good. And the way that she was talking about approaching it was, hey, together, we can do even bigger and better things. It's not a compromise, this is a collaboration. This isn't like an ultimatum or else kind of a thing, but I think that we will both be better if.
Lesley Logan 17:48
Yeah, she also mentioned in the relationship thing, she said, it's multiplication, not addition. So be a whole person, do your work, and then find someone who's also whole, so you can create a whole, healthy relationship. And I thought that that was really cool, because my dad was really big on, like, no one completes you. You're not finding another half. You're a whole, right? Your life should be amazing, and then they just add to it. But I like how she takes it a step further, where it's, like, it's multiplication, actually it's compounding. When you're a whole person and they're a whole person, you compound, like, together, it's a compounding effect. And I thought that's really cool.
Brad Crowell 18:21
Yeah, I dig that. I always said one plus one equals one, which isn't logical, you know, it's not a half plus a half equals one. It's one plus one equals one, you know?
Lesley Logan 18:28
I'm glad it worked for you.
Brad Crowell 18:30
Maybe it should have just been better if I did multiplication, because one times one is one.
Lesley Logan 18:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brad Crowell 18:36
How about that?
Lesley Logan 18:37
Yeah. But also, like.
Brad Crowell 18:38
So, it's not addition, it's multiplication.
Lesley Logan 18:40
Yes, yes.
Brad Crowell 18:41
I love that. That's a better way to say it.
Lesley Logan 18:43
And we all need to stop watching the movie where he's like, you complete me. That is the.
Brad Crowell 18:47
Yeah, yeah, I know you. You mentioned that in the episode. What connected with me a lot was when the two of you were talking about, and this is what I was alluding to at the beginning of this pod, when you are raised as an empowered women, the stories of how we were raised, what we were raised to go after and accomplish, or how we are told to get purpose, they're now two different paths, right? I'm a strong, empowered woman. I can do everything myself. I don't necessarily need a man, whereas the storyline for men has always been she had three P's, and I can't remember what it was, provide, protect and procreate. Those are the three P's that she said. It is possible for those provide, protect and procreate to still happen with the storyline of the strong, empowered woman, but the expectation is what's shifted, right, of like, how do I provide, what she must be in need in order for me to provide, how do I protect? She's got to be weak for me to be strong. How I procreate, well, you know, that better be a collaboration.
Lesley Logan 19:50
But I also, that better be, I also do think that like, it requires both people to redefine what those definitions are.
Brad Crowell 19:57
Yeah, when she started to talk about that, she's. Like, hey, look, women, Butespecially women who have been raised with this new philosophy, we still have to understand that there's now a disconnect in the language and in the mentality, and so that's where I thought it was good to have empathy and also to redefine for men, I think she's right on the money, you know?
Lesley Logan 20:20
Yeah, I really, I really liked it because it wasn't about us as empowered women compromising and going, oh, okay, I'll do these things so that they can feel empowered. No, it's actually if provide isn't them making more money than you, can provide be that they actually make the meals and they take care of the household, they take care of the kids. Can that be providing?
Brad Crowell 20:39
Yeah, or she her, example was creating a safe, emotional space to thrive. I think it also comes down to, y'all didn't talk about this, but there's a ego with like, machoism with men, and I feel like that's where things get confused, because you can still be going after the three P's, that protect, the provide, the procreate, and not have the machismo that goes along with that.
Lesley Logan 20:39
Yeah. And also machis, I feel like that is where everyone is getting it wrong, like.
Brad Crowell 21:12
Somehow that's become the definition of a man.
Lesley Logan 21:14
It is.
Brad Crowell 21:14
I disagree with that.
Lesley Logan 21:15
It's so weird, because it's not how you are. It's not how any of the male friends you have in your life.
Brad Crowell 21:19
There's nothing alpha about that.
Lesley Logan 21:21
No, oh, no. Also, if you have to say you're alpha, you're not, just so we're clear. But then I follow several really amazing dudes online who are very healthy forms of masculinity to me. It's just really interesting, because I'm like, what is going on with this disconnect? And it's just, it's actually very sad. It's almost like people are, they're afraid if the world changes, then they won't have a place. So if there's not dangerous men out there, then there's no one for them to protect us from. Is what's going on on social media, right? And it's like, actually, we can get rid of dangerous men who can still protect us from scammers, like you, my husband, makes sure I have a VPN on wherever I go, I can translate that as protection, right? Like, it doesn't have to be that you beat someone up at a bar for looking at me the wrong way. You know what I mean? Like you can actually protect by just making sure your partner's passwords are all created on a way that can't be taken. There's so many different ways we can translate this, and I feel like people are unwilling to be creative, but also maybe they were never raised enough, way that there was a spectrum or a possibility. Yeah. And so really, how do we re-educate an entire generation of people? I don't know. But I think what we can do, as everyone listening to Kristal, is go, okay, who's in my world? Can I have this honest conversation with, with just like one person. I can't change neighbors. I don't know, but I can, you know, we can certainly talk to people in our life around (inaudible).
Brad Crowell 22:47
Yeah, I was gonna suggest her book is maybe beginning to the education of a entire generation, both men and women.
Lesley Logan 22:54
Yeah, let's get it in libraries, let's get it in Boy Scouts.
Brad Crowell 22:57
Yeah, all right. Stick around. We'll be right back. We're gonna dig into those, be it action items we got with Kristal.
Brad Crowell 23:04
All right, welcome back. So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Kristal DeSantis? She talked about something called the Heartbeat Exercise, which it was for emotional connection. She also mentioned that people have done this when they're dating. She explained, it's three points. It's a point of this is a conversation that you would be having with someone, but it's three points, a point of pride, a point of pain and a point of pleasure. Imagine it as a heartbeat, the ups, the downs, and the points where you connect. How it works. Point of pride, ask your partner what they are proud of, and then validate it. A point of pain, hold space for their struggles without fixing. Point of pleasure, celebrate moments of joy or connection.
Lesley Logan 23:49
I like this.
Brad Crowell 23:50
Yeah, I think it's pretty cool. The Heartbeat Exercise. She said we normalize talking about pain, checking in about it, and also about pleasure. Like, did you discover something new during our last walk or experience together? So, you know, it helps with communication, it helps with talking about feelings, it helps with going deeper. So it's kind of cool little exercise. I think it's neat.
Lesley Logan 24:11
Yeah, so I loved the four positions of conversation.
Brad Crowell 24:15
Oh, yeah, this is neat. This is kind of cool.
Lesley Logan 24:16
Yeah. So this is to improve communication. So there's four positions. Position one is listening.
Brad Crowell 24:21
Yeah, this was the four positions of conversation.
Lesley Logan 24:23
Yeah, yeah. So position one is listening.
Brad Crowell 24:26
Okay.
Lesley Logan 24:27
Position two is offering empathy.
Brad Crowell 24:29
Okay.
Lesley Logan 24:30
Position three is fixing.
Brad Crowell 24:32
Okay, listening, offering empathy, fixing.
Lesley Logan 24:35
Position four is debating.
Brad Crowell 24:37
Debating.
Lesley Logan 24:38
So the way you use this is, first of all, you both need to know what these positions are. And second, she said, even put it like on the fridge, where you can see it. And then whenever you feel like you're not in the same conversation, you can say, can I ask you to move to position one, which is, just listen to me.
Brad Crowell 24:53
Yeah, I think one thing to point out, just to help, because people can't see this right now, she said traditionally, it's been understood that women are focused more on positions one and two, which are listening and offering empathy, while men are focused more on three and four, which are fixing and debating. She said, so we often are passing each other in this because we're on the wrong communication track or position. So, one and two, listening, offering empathy. Three and four are fixing and debating, yeah, and, and, bless you. Hey, if you could just shift back to position one instead of sneezing. That'd be great. No more position four.
Lesley Logan 25:32
You've been too much in the position three right now. So I'm gonna ask you to offer some position two (inaudible).
Brad Crowell 25:38
Okay, okay. So that's actually exactly how you use it.
Lesley Logan 25:46
That's exactly, we just did it. We're excellent. I really like this because I think here's what ends up happening in a relationship, someone says to calm down, which is mistake number one, never tell someone to calm down unless you want to be murdered. It's like, the most annoying thing, just calm down. You can't tell someone you don't want them to do. You have to tell people what to do. Like, that's just the way that it works. It's like that in Pilates, by the way. So if you can get each person on the page of what these positions are, and you can say, hey, I feel like you're really in a position three, and I just really need to be in position one, and if you can just take a beat and then the other person can understand that you're not correcting them, you're asking for your needs to be met.
Brad Crowell 26:27
Yeah, I feel like we need, like, live action stick figure body symbols for this. Like, what if position one was like, okay.
Lesley Logan 26:33
Oh, you want to do it like, the baseball team?
Brad Crowell 26:35
You are in a position.
Lesley Logan 26:37
No.
Brad Crowell 26:37
And I need you in a position.
Lesley Logan 26:40
I think, I think, at best, hand signals, but maybe magnets. I don't know.
Brad Crowell 26:45
If there's ever a reason to watch YouTube that would have been it.
Lesley Logan 26:47
That would have been it, that they missed it. I'm Lesley Logan.
Brad Crowell 26:50
And I'm Brad Crowell.
Lesley Logan 26:51
Get Kristal DeSantis' book. It's great for both men and women to read, and then also check her out, because she and her husband actually do like couples retreats, and really do an amazing job working with couples. I also think it's important to state that you don't have to be in a state of need to go in and develop yourself as a couple.
Brad Crowell 27:10
Sure.
Lesley Logan 27:10
You can also do this when you're on upswing, there's always more to learn from each other, because we're always growing, right? So how are you gonna use these tips in your life? We want to know.
Brad Crowell 27:17
We do.
Lesley Logan 27:17
Tag the Be It Pod. Tag Kristal DeSantis. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.
Brad Crowell 27:21
Bye for now.
Lesley Logan 27:24
That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.
Lesley Logan 28:01
It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.
Lesley Logan 28:03
It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.
Brad Crowell 28:04
Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.
Lesley Logan 28:10
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.
Brad Crowell 28:16
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donations
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy