742. How to Know When to Quit vs. Pivot

00:00
26:27

What are you actually done with? In part one of a two-part series on quitting versus pivoting, Lesley Logan sits with that question before making any big decision. She teaches why quitting is not the same as failing and why the messy middle is part of the process, not proof you picked the wrong thing. Consider this the awareness check before you decide to quit or pivot.


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In this episode you will learn about:

  • The quitting myth that keeps high achievers stuck in the wrong story.
  • Why the messy middle feels like failure but is actually the process.
  • The ADHD trap of mistaking a novelty crash for real misalignment.
  • Five levers to check before deciding whether to quit or to pivot.
  • What the body reveals about clarity versus panic before any big decision.


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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 00:00

You don't want to quit your dream. It's not the dream that you're trying to quit. It's the exhaustion that is going along with it, and that happens, right? We start doing things one way, and so we keep doing it that way, and we think, "Oh my God, if I change it, it's just going to all fall apart." When really, maybe it needs to change so we can keep growing.


Lesley Logan 00:19

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.


Lesley Logan 01:02

All right, love, so a little while ago, I caught myself in one of those moods where you just want to quit it all. I'm just, I was working on this email and I was, I am over this. Why am I doing this? Why did I say yes to this? I said yes a long time ago and it made sense. And now I'm in it, and I don't want to be in it anymore. I don't like the schedule that's supporting it. I am just really tired of acting like it's all it was work. This is working, and I think we've all been there before. When it's just months ago, we made decisions. Now we're the person we are. People would blame it on perimenopause, ADHD, whatever, whatever. But the reality is, is when you're in those spaces, you do need to sit before you quit. That's what I did. So I sat with myself. What is the thing that's bothering me the most? Because I really do love what I do. So what about this isn't working? What about this am I actually done with? And that's what I'm talking about today. That's what this episode is about: should we quit or should we pivot?


Lesley Logan 02:02

So Be It, babe. Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we really do talk about becoming the person who does the thing you really want to do. We do. We talk about doing that because you're going to do it before you're ready. You're going to start acting as if you're that person. You are going to do. You're going to be the person who does the thing, so you can have the thing. It's about instead of waiting to have the thing to be the person, right? But it's complicated. It's hard. So this is part one of a two-part series. We're doing these solo podcasts based on what you've been asking for, what you've really wanted, and we've had lots of interesting questions about quitting. I've definitely have some friends in my life who are literally like quitting. I'm like, are you sure you want to quit-quit? You sure you don't want to just reframe, change the location, change the title? You know, quit-quit? So I thought it would be really interesting just to let's talk about it. Is it time to quit or do we need to pivot? And I know that word pivot is a strong word for those of us who survived 2020. I am the pivot queen when I am in spaces and places, and I hate that and love that about myself because it does make me very hireable. But it is important that we get honest about what is going on in our reality before we make big decisions, because I do find that a lot of women that I know would rather just quit it all and start all over than take some time, take a 30,000-foot view.


Lesley Logan 03:29

So let's get into it. Let's talk about it. So first, we have a quitting myth that I want to talk to you about. What I want to really start off with is actually that I find a lot of people will be afraid to quit because they feel like they, that means they failed, and I've definitely experienced this. We made a big transition with Agency several years ago, and originally I was, my god, we failed at this. Like I told myself some stupid story. No, no, no, we did not. We didn't even quit it, right? We actually just pivoted. So, but we got to a place where it had gone as big as it could in that capacity, and I had changed, and the members had changed, and the needs had changed, and technology had changed, and what we have capacity for had changed. And so, you know, it's really important that when you are making these big decisions in your life, that you do not see quitting as failing because they are not the same things.


Lesley Logan 04:22

I used to be so afraid to quit jobs because I thought, oh my god, they're not going to like me, or they're going to think I don't like them, or that I didn't think I'm cut out for this or something. Rather than no, I'm just, there's this other thing over here that I need to be challenged with, I need to experience, need to go through, but there is something about those of us who are recovering perfections and overachievers, firstborn daughters. We tend to catastrophize changes on our decisions as if we have somewhat failed or failing people or failing ourselves, and it's just not true. It actually is a really convenient story just to help us be stuck.


Lesley Logan 05:00

So, if you are in a space where you're just wanting, you're wanting to quit something, it's information, not a judgment or a verdict or something like that. Just information, and I think the more we can be gatherers of information, so that we can make the best decisions, that's going to make life a lot more fun. It's going to make it easier to be it until we see it. So the distinction I want you to kind of keep in mind as we go through this episode is you don't want to quit your dream. It's not the dream that you're trying to quit. It's the exhaustion that is going along with it, and that happens, right? We start doing things one way, and so we keep doing it that way, and we think, oh my god! If I change it, it's just going to all fall apart. When really, maybe it needs to change so we can keep growing and keep doing it. Right?


Lesley Logan 05:46

So, going back to my story about how we changed Agency. If we did not make those changes, agency I could not currently have a version of it. It was becoming so encompassing of my time, and it was keeping me from being able to do the other things that I really dreamt of doing, and so if I didn't make the change, if I didn't quit the, I'm not going to say I was exhausted from it, but just the weight of it on my calendar. Then if I didn't make that change, then I was going to miss out on all the other things I want to do, right? And we have to be honest about those things. So you're not quitting the dream; you are quitting the exhaustion or the way that you're doing that dream, right? And when it's late at night and you are working the midnight oil, as they say, or burning the midnight oil, you know it's really hard to make a distinction between information and a verdict, information and a final, a finality, right? Everything can feel big, and we can catastrophize it. I'm really good at that.


Lesley Logan 06:43

If you listen to episode 400 with Gay Hendricks in his book, there is this thing that we all do. We don't all do it, but there's different ways that you pull yourself out of your genius zone to get into your comfort zone. And one of those things is catastrophizing. And so that happens when it's late at night and this thing isn't working and this thing isn't working, and then it's, well, I should just quit, and then it's, well, and all these other things aren't working, and we, it's really hard when we're tired to see things as information and support for where we need to go, and or a guidance as opposed to what it feels like, which is just you failed, but you didn't. So they're not the same thing. It is confusing, you know. I think it's really important that we remember that we get to love the things that we are doing.


Lesley Logan 07:26

And if we're not loving the current version of them, we can make a change and it doesn't mean failure finale. So, the next thing I wanna talk about is the messy middle is not a stop sign. So, a lot of people that I coach, they get into the middle of what their dream is and what their thing is that they're doing. And it is messy and it is hard, and sometimes it feels like you're going backwards and not forwards or going down and not up. And if you ever look up the book, "The Messy Middle," it's literally what it's called. It's got this graph on the front and it's got a starting point and an ending point and it goes like a weird rollercoaster. But everything does end up. But it doesn't feel like that 'cause when you're in the middle and you're going up and down and up and down, sometimes you don't realize that you're actually up. You just, you just were down a bit and you didn't realize that like you've been increasingly going up there. So, a lot of people will get into the messy middle, and they won't be getting achieving the things that they are wanting to do quick enough, and so then they think that they're not cut out for this, and that they should quit. And I just want to say, everything I have ever built, including this podcast, is currently in the messy middle because it will be there until I exit, right? But some days are better than others. Some days it feels like some seasons feel like it's all falling apart. Other seasons feel like we can't even keep up with how great it's going. But when it is all feels like it's all falling apart and not working, it can feel like, oh, maybe I should stop, maybe I should quit.


Lesley Logan 08:54

And you need to understand that the messy middle is genuinely part of the process. It is where we actually build the muscle we need to go where we're got to to get where we're going to grow to, where we're going to grow our business to, we're going to grow our dreams to. You have to have experiences so you can handle bigger experiences, right? The success you want is really determined based on the problems you're able to solve, and so if you haven't experienced a problem, it's hard to know how to solve that, so it's going to be something you have to do. And so it's better to learn that in the messy middle than try to get to the end. So I just want to say, your brain will start to go off the feelings and the vibes. You got to have data. You got to have data, and you have appointments with yourself to have the data, so that you can make a confident decision about pivoting or quitting, right? And, you know, we all know this, but it's worth discussing. Decision fatigue is a real thing. And so when you're overwhelmed, your brain wants to reduce mental load, and quitting looks like the fastest exit. But burnout does the same thing. It makes everything feel impossible, even the things you still care about. So the messy middle isn't proof you picked the wrong thing. Sometimes it's just proof that you're just freaking tired. And it's okay to be tired because a lot of us will do a lot of things on our own, and think we don't have the time to hire, outsource, or can't afford this course or this class, and so we do things kind of the harder way. And there is a lot of support now. And so sometimes that proof that you're just tired is a good place to be so that you can actually change the things that you're doing so that you can keep going on the journey but be less tired. So just keep that in mind that, sometimes you're overwhelmed, and so you feel like, "Well, I should just quit." Overwhelmed is not a bad thing, you know? There's gonna be days you're underwhelmed, there's gonna be days you're overwhelmed. We really have to be mindful about just going off of vibes and then being harsh on ourselves. 


Lesley Logan 10:47

And we can add on to this because if you have an ADHD brain like I do, like a lot of you do, because we attract each other, something that we have to be mindful of, and this is something that my coaches have been really helpful with is our brains crave novelty and stimulation. So if a project or goal we are working on stops being new and starts being in that maintenance messy middle, then our brain doesn't get stimulated from it, and it can read it as it's not working when actually we're just in a boredom state because we lack stimulation. We lack the hormones that keep our brains focused, and so it's not misalignment. And so something that I have to really ask myself: I'm like, am I craving a dopamine high? Can I go for a run? Can I play with my puppy before I want to quit something that feels unexciting for someone that is exciting? Is this my ADHD ruling the show, or is this my actual conscious decision of who I want to be until I see it? And so I hope that really makes sense. Is this the ADHD, or is this real life? Right? Is it? What's going on there? And sometimes that means I do go for, when I do try to get the dopamine high, or I do take my medication, and then it's, oh, okay, I see. We were just a little bit bored.


Lesley Logan 12:04

So that leads us to our third segment, which is asking better questions. So before you quit anything, instead of asking, "Should I stay or should I go?" Ask what part is actually not working. If you're to look at everything, right? So we're looking at this podcast, for example, and I was just, you know, it's been six years. I feel, you know, in three years since we went to three episodes, I feel like it's really time to review everything. So it's not the question was not should I quit the podcast. The question is what about this podcast is working? What about this podcast do people love? What about what do the stats say about each of the episodes? What would make me really enjoy it like I did at the very beginning? What do I still enjoy? What parts of it am I not enjoying? So instead of we're done, it's no, no, no. What do we need to change? What needs to reframe, reorganize, redo, refiness, get rid of, so that we can continue to grow. So, ways to ask yourself and in your situation is: Is it the pace? Is it going too slow or too fast? Is it the pressure? Is that pressure from you, an outside source? Is it the people? Maybe you've gone as far as you can with the people that you're with. That happens. It's not personal. You know, it really does suck to let go of people or replace people with somebody else, but we're doing some work on our YouTube channel. I love our team, and I love our team in general. It doesn't matter the department, but I do love our YouTube team. They've done a really great job with what I want, and I want more. So I brought someone in, not to replace them, but to guide them to the next stage, right? Because I think it's important for us to always examine what's working, what's not working, where do we want to go, and is this, do we have the skill sets for where we want to grow, or do we need to bring them in? So is it the plan, right? Did you start with a map that actually wasn't finished, or did you make a plan based on information, and then halfway through, you got new information. So you're operating on an old plan, but with new information, right? Is it the support you have or you don't have? Maybe you don't have it. I said I hired someone to help me with where I want to go with my YouTube channel.


Lesley Logan 14:12

Is it the expectation you've set for yourself and what is supposed to happen? Have you changed your goals in your life? One of my girlfriends is retiring from what she has been doing, and it's interesting when people change their lives in different ways. It does force you to kind of examine what you're doing, and it's kind of nice because then, oh, what am I jealous of from her? What am I envious? What's what am I? Oh, I could never do that because I love this. All that is information that really helps you understand what's working in your life, and then what needs to be altered, exchanged, changed up, supported, hired out. Right. So, if it is pace, pressure, people, plan, or support, then those are five different problems with different solutions, and we don't even need to ask ourselves, "Should I quit?" Because it's not about quitting; it's actually about change, working with different levers, and we just can't see that in the moment because oftentimes we were thinking about this at the worst time of our fueled self when we haven't had enough sleep and when we are completely overwhelmed and exhausted, so it's really important that we, you know, give ourselves space and a place to review things from a 30,000-foot view and not so emotionally when when that happens. And that's really hard, I know.


Lesley Logan 15:33

So the next thing I want to get into for should I quit or should I pivot is your body already knows something, and this is something I really have had to. I really learned the hard way. I will say that every time I got a somewhat boyfriend in my life, I got immediately sick, really sick. Different kinds of sickness, just different kinds of colds, really. But in the summertime, when no one gets sick, so my body was allergic to them, and I should have taken that as a hint. But you know it takes time. So here is something that I think we have to trust. We have to learn to trust is that your body, our bodies, often know before our brain can articulate. If you were to ask yourself, "Should I quit?" and your body doesn't feel instantly calm. In fact, it feels panicked or frustrated. Then it's probably not quitting. But is it that I don't want to work weekends anymore? Yeah, that feels really good. So your body often can let you in on how you're feeling, even if your brain hasn't fully articulated it yet. So I want you to be paying attention. Does your body feel like it's in panic mode? Does it feel heavy? Do you feel relief or clarity or spaciousness? You know, when I was when Brad and I were talking about making just a few changes, the podcast, I could tell as we were going. Should we do this? Should we do this? I could feel. Oh, that doesn't make me excited. Oh my god, that makes me feel so excited. Oh, I love this. Oh, I'm so excited for that. And as my body was feeling that joy and excitement, it really let me know that okay, this is the path we want to go. Which I, my brain could not have articulated that with the start of the meeting. That's not what my brain knew. You know, I had to really take some time and think up some ideas, and it's okay to still throw ideas out there. There's no bad idea in a brainstorm, right?


Lesley Logan 17:16

So it is the sensations that give us different information. Relief and spaciousness often point towards something that's actually complete and feeling really good. Panic and urgency often point towards fear or towards avoidance, or that can be dressed up as a decision. And that is tricky. Intuition and avoidance can almost feel identical at first, and it's why we have that whole series on regulation and listening to yourself. So go back and listen to them because if you're dysregulated, then it can be really tricky to listen to your body, and you can take something as fear and I'm going to feel it anyways when it's actually, ooh, that doesn't feel good. But you were dysregulated, so how you weren't able to read the signals correctly. So I understand that getting to know yourself and listen to your body sometimes can create panic, and it can be hard to listen to that intuition, and again, we have those episodes on listening to yourself and the intuition and where it comes from. It comes from experience, right? So, if you're new to listening to yourself, it is going to take some time. That means if you're before you quit something, before you pivot, you really need to take some time to understand what your body is telling you, so you can lean on your intuition. You can't. I don't want anyone listening to this podcast make rash decisions and go, "Oh god. I mean, it's not like you can't go back. Sometimes you can, but wouldn't it be nice if you just took a little bit longer to really feel into yourself about what it is that you are doing, what is it you're needing? I don't want you to go, "Oh my god, I'm so dramatic." You're not dramatic, right? It's just that your body's having a hard time understanding clarity versus urgency, right? It can be hard to feel when something is loud in your brain.


Lesley Logan 18:48

So, next time you feel like spiraling, please, please, please do not make a permanent decision from that temporary state. If you can, I need you to sleep on it. I need you to go, if you can't sleep, it's too early in the day. I need you to go move your body. I need you to do something to get regulated, and then find a space, a place, a journal, a person where you can actually just ask yourself these questions, so that you don't make a permanent decision from a temporary state. Because it could just be temporary. If you go far out on the block, you feel better. Then we don't even need to do a decision. There's nothing to make. You just needed, you just needed some dopamine. You need some air. You need some vitamin D. Before we wrap things up, we have a couple more things. I do want to talk about the sunk cost trap because I do think that some people will stick with something and not quit because of all the time and money they've put into it. And I just want to say that is a real thing.


Lesley Logan 19:40

And the name of it is called the sunk cost fallacy. Many people have stayed in relationships because of how much time they have together. People keep friends around. People keep working on a project 'cause they spent a lot of money on it. We have invested in things, and it didn't go well, and we just kept doing calls with them. And I'm like, just let's just walk away from the fucking money, you know?


Lesley Logan 19:58

Because it's every hour we spend with them is an hour we're not doing something else that is making us money, and that didn't work. And so, but you know, it's we people, the human body and brain is conditioned to not lose money versus go make it. So, just want to say, if you are in a space where afraid to make a decision about quitting or pivoting because you've been investing so much time, I think it is really, really important to make sure that you're differentiating what we talked about at the beginning of this episode, which is quitting is not failing. It is if you find yourself going, "I should have known better. I'm embarrassed. Oh my god, I'm an idiot." All that stuff is is probably a sign that you're in judgment. Well, you are in judgment, but that you're in that sunk cost fallacy, and so you're kind of sticking things out, you do want to get to yourself to a place of you know what I learned what I needed to learn here, and I'm complete because that's what a lot of things are. A lot of things are just learning lessons, and we can just end it, right? And ending things does not mean that they are a failure. It's information. It's feedback, right?


Lesley Logan 20:57

So some endings are complete, others are often like a setup for where you're going to go. You know, everyone thinks that things are a setback, but have you ever seen how you do a bow and arrow? You pull back to go forward, right? So just know that sometimes we stick with things because we have spent so much time and money, we feel like we have a lot to lose when really we've gotten the lessons, the network, the people, the places that we need to go, and it's time to move forward. And then we got information from that that will set us up for what we want to do. So I want to leave you with this because I do think that a lot of times we don't realize how brave we are, and that we often think that quitting is not courageous or brave, but it can be. Also, it can be very brave to stay in the middle, and it can be very courageous to sit in a little discomfort a little longer because the mission is still alive, and you're not, you don't have enough information to make a change, and the change is not to quit.


Lesley Logan 21:58

Sometimes the brave thing is telling the truth that this is done, you're not a failure, but it's it's not quitting. It's not shame. It's just the end. We ended that book. So I just want to say that bravery and courageousness can look like staying and getting more information. It can look like pivoting because you have the information. It can look like quitting because you've completed the task that you can in this stage, and I just I think it really it really does take guts to think about that and to do that, and I I really do hope that you see that too.


Lesley Logan 22:31

So I I like to give you some journal prompts with these episodes. I hope you like that. Let me know if this is silly, Lesley. Why are we doing this? Because I do want you to learn to listen to yourself, and my verbiage might not be the same words you would use, but I want you to grab your journal or open up your notes app, and I want you to do what am I actually done with? What am I actually done with? It's really funny. I'm recording this on the 9/9 portal, and you're supposed to write nine things that you're not taking with you. And so, even though you're listening, that's not on 9/9. I honestly think it's really important. What am I actually done with?


Lesley Logan 23:02

Be specific, not this whole thing, but the actual part, the actual piece. I'm done with taking phone calls before 8 a.m. I'm done with people having access to my personal line. I'm done with emails from people who simply could Google the answer, right? What am I done with? Then the next question you're going to journal on is, when I imagine walking away, what does my body do? Do I panic, or do I feel space? So imagine yourself quitting, walking away, being done with whatever the specific thing is, and how does that feel?


Lesley Logan 23:39

The next question is, am I making this decision from a space of clarity, or am I making this from a state of spiral or panic, urgency, frustration? And I don't need you to rush your answer. You might even just ask yourself the question: Go for a walk. Your brain loves an open loop, but we're going to build on that for part two. And I think awareness is key for being able to do our next move. And so we're gonna in part two. We're gonna really dive into, you know, is it a pivot? Is a real goodbye? Is it a pivot or a real goodbye?


Lesley Logan 24:12

And so, you know, that's part one. That's what I want to kick you off with. So I hope that gives you something to think about for the next couple days before we come back with our second episode in the series. And I love if something, you know, if something I said here really helped you. I would love for you to screenshot this episode, share it on the social feeds that you use, share this text to a friend who needs to hear it. Maybe someone in your life who is going through something and just really wondering: Is it time to quit? Is it time to pivot? This podcast grows because you share it, so please do. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.


Lesley Logan 24:42

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.


Brad Crowell 25:24

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 25:29

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.


Brad Crowell 25:34

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.


Lesley Logan 25:41

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.


Brad Crowell 25:44

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.


Lesley Logan 25:57

All right, Be It babe. We're gonna talk about something.


Lesley Logan 26:05

Ask and you shall receive.


Lesley Logan 26:07

I love how you have time to fix a table. Okay, great.


Lesley Logan 26:11

Thank you.



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