704. Why Charging What You're Worth Feels So Hard

00:00
39:39

Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell recap the conversation with Julian Barnes, co-founder and CEO of the BFS Network and a leading voice on boutique fitness market data. They unpack what his numbers-first view of the Pilates business reveals about pricing, client commitment, and the confidence it takes to run a profitable studio. With twenty plus years guiding studio founders, Julian brings hard data to the soft topics most owners avoid.

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In this episode you will learn about:

  • What it really means to sell the transformation not the process.
  • How to help clients see the cost as an investment.
  • Where courage and conviction change who becomes your client.
  • Signs the Pilates bubble is bursting and what survives it.
  • Stepping into your authority so clients commit and get results.


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Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00  

You have to understand that if people are making decisions based on cost, they will always do that. You have to bring it back to the investment of the transformation they want to have, and how badly do they want to have that. 


Lesley Logan 0:13  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. 


Lesley Logan 0:55  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap on my coast in life. Brad and I are going to dig into the enlightening convo I had with Julian Barnes in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, this will make a lot of no sense, because it was a different type of interview. It wasn't really an interview of what Julian does, it wasn't really a Be It Till You See It, it was very much a "let's talk about the Pilates industry." 


Brad Crowell 1:17  

Yeah, it was an industry debrief. 


Lesley Logan 1:18  

An industry debrief, and so. 


Brad Crowell 1:20  

It was kind of cool, actually.


Lesley Logan 1:22  

Yeah, and I also, coming off of the recap of Adrian Starks, it made me even more aware of our purpose when it comes to Pilates business coaching. Because I don't know if Julian asked me this when we were on camera or off, but he was like, "You like helping these small studios?" And I was like, "Because that's what accessibility is." There's got to be different types of Pilates studios, because people need different things, and everyone shouldn't be in a 14-person class.


Brad Crowell 1:48  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 1:49  

So, anyways, it's a really... if you are a Pilates instructor, or you have one, then they need to listen to both these episodes. After you listen to the amazing announcement of today, the holiday and the charity, and the other things, if you want to go off to an FYF or something else, I won't be offended. If you like the sound of this voice and you want to keep supporting it, and Brad, just the voice.


Brad Crowell 2:12  

Just the voice.


Lesley Logan 2:13  

You should be an OPC member. OPC is not for people who are obsessed with Pilates, I mean, it is, but it's really for people who just want easy access to real Pilates, and then a safe place to be imperfect, and to be themselves, and to be supported, and to be like, "It's okay if you missed a week, you're welcome back. We're all here for you." And if so, "Oh, you recover from injury. Oh, I had that one. Here are these things." It's where you get community support, and you're not alone. So, go to opc.me/40


Brad Crowell 2:39  

Yeah, actually, we got a new link for you. It's opc.me/beit


Lesley Logan 2:43  

opc.me/beit


Brad Crowell 2:45  

B-E-I-T


Lesley Logan 2:47  

B-E-I-T. I'm still waiting for my "just be it" things, given that everyone can distill people's shit around here. Why can't I just have "just be it"?


Brad Crowell 2:59  

I love that.


Lesley Logan 3:01  

It's okay, but we have "be it," and you can be it too, and you can be an OPC member while you're being it. I promise, I promise it helps. Today is July 9, 2026, and it's International Emergency Kit Day.


Brad Crowell 3:13  

That's right. It's Emergency Kit Day, y'all. This is a Boy Scout talking to you right now.


Lesley Logan 3:18  

Today is a day to raise awareness about being prepared when disaster strikes. An emergency kit, sometimes called a go-bag or disaster bag, is a portable kit that has essentials you and your family need to survive in case of emergency. They are easy to grab when you need to evacuate for whatever reason, usually a natural disaster. This day is a reminder to check your kit or build one today. It will make all the difference when an emergency happens. We have first aid kits, but that's what I thought this was, and it's clearly a go-bag, which we do not have, Brad.


Brad Crowell 3:44  

Yeah, we don't have. I don't have the movie duffel bag that's like, "Go, go, go," and you grab it on the way out the door, or the baby bag when someone is pregnant and has to run to the hospital, they got a bag ready. We probably could put one of those together. I think that would be wise. Don't let someone sell you a $300 go-bag. Put it together yourself.


Lesley Logan 4:07  

Just put it together. Just please put it together yourself. Photocopies of things are really great. If you learn anything from the fires of LA, it means you need to have copies of very important documents: birth certificates, passports, but also insurance policies, wills, whatever that is.


Brad Crowell 4:24  

I should digitize those and just put them.


Lesley Logan 4:25  

Can we have a digitized go-bag, Brad? Because I gotta be honest, we're gonna have to then remember where it is. Because I thought there's an emergency kit thing, and it was so funny, because you were asked if you had one recently by someone, and you're like, "Oh yeah," and I'm like, "Thank God they asked you, because if they had asked me, I'd be like, 'We don't have one.'"


Brad Crowell 4:47  

But not only that, if you have an emergency kit, go through it, because when was the last time you had it, or opened it, or used it? I went through ours, I don't know, six or 12 months ago, and I pulled everything out, and all the Band-Aids, the stickiness of the Band-Aids was just gone.


Lesley Logan 5:03  

Not sticky.


Brad Crowell 5:04  

Yeah, so I was like, "Oh wow, yeah, all this expired in 2005." So I got rid of all that and replaced everything. And then sure enough, somebody asked us, "Hey, do you have an emergency kit?" And I was like, "Yes," and I can stand by that everything is ready for you here. Yeah.


Lesley Logan 5:23  

And it's really funny because we actually have a really massive emergency kit in the bathroom by our studio in the house, and I was looking for Band-Aids in the bathroom that I get ready in every day. And then I was cleaning things up and getting ready for people to show up, and there's this massive Brad kit, and I was like, "Oh, we have a massive emergency kit," and I opened it up. No Band-Aids. Zero Band-Aids. That has not been updated. I'm like, clearly this is not a real studio, because. So go check your emergency kits, go create a digitized go-bag, because. 


Brad Crowell 5:56  

We want a digitized go-bag, and then maybe a real one that's like, if you got to run out the door and you need a change of clothes or some shoes or something. This is not


Lesley Logan 6:02  

This is not what the holiday is, what the holiday is, but there's that If I Die book. Have you seen this? I got asked for it on my Instagram. It's called If I Die or When I Die, and it's all these important things, and we should really fill that out.


Brad Crowell 6:16  

Everything You Need to Know Journal. If I Die.


Lesley Logan 6:20  

Brad's gonna find a digital one.


Brad Crowell 6:21  

I found it already. Yeah, well, this is a book, actually, by Christopher Lombardi. Collect all the information your loved ones will need to know at a difficult time. And he said, "When my father passed away, I wish I had such a book."


Lesley Logan 6:35  

Yeah, well, that's interesting. It's a little too much adulting for me in one day, but I like the idea of it.


Brad Crowell 6:40  

Yeah, there's also When I Die planners with pockets.


Lesley Logan 6:44  

Pocket.


Brad Crowell 6:44  

Yeah, that has little pockets in it.


Lesley Logan 6:46  

Oh, for things like my card, I have a card in Brad's office attached to the refrigerator from when my dad dies, a number to call for them to cremate him.


Brad Crowell 6:54  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 6:54  

I know where the card is.


Brad Crowell 6:56  

I mean, there's even Reddit arguments about this: I made an "If I die" packet for my husband. My family is now calling me morbid for this effort. I think it's smart.


Lesley Logan 7:05  

It's incredibly smart, and it's not morbid. And you are gonna be... here's the thing, we talked about grief two weeks ago, had nothing to do with people, but we're just gonna bring it back up, when someone is dealing with the loss of a loved one, the last thing you need to figure out is the fucking password to your shit.


Brad Crowell 7:22  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 7:23  

Don't do that to people. I'm watching The Pit, and that is a trap. You don't want to be dealing with that, plus what is their insurance? All that stuff. No, no, don't do that to people. And as I say this, Brad and I are hypocrites, because we have yet to sit down and do our fucking thing that his parents asked us to do three times, which is the DNR and the will thing, and all that stuff. So.


Brad Crowell 7:48  

There's a, we talked about this before, there's an organization called Free Will. Make your free will online.


Lesley Logan 7:54  

Okay, well. 


Brad Crowell 7:57  

freewill.com


Lesley Logan 7:57  

Well, this day just turned into a very helpful day, and my ADHD is really overwhelmed. Upcoming travel and events, you guys, eLevate 2027 is full, sold out, can't take another body, but you can join us today.


Brad Crowell 8:13  

You can join us today.


Lesley Logan 8:17  

At 1pm Pacific time.


Brad Crowell 8:19  

Is that 1pm? 


Lesley Logan 8:20  

Yeah. 


Brad Crowell 8:20  

I'm glad you know that.


Lesley Logan 8:21  

It's at 1 p.m. to learn about 2028 Elevate, and if you're like, "Well, Lesley, thanks, I'm going back to this on a different date," there's probably a replay up.


Brad Crowell 8:31  

Yeah, there'll be a replay. We'll put the replay up on the Elevate page, I'm sure.


Lesley Logan 8:35  

Go to xxll.co/waitlist, and if you missed it. 


Brad Crowell 8:40  

Then go to lesleylogan.co/elevate and that's where the replay will be.


Lesley Logan 8:45  

Yeah, summer tour is really close, a few weeks away.


Brad Crowell 8:49  

OPC Summer Tour


Lesley Logan 8:50  

Yeah. 


Brad Crowell 8:50  

Come join us in real life, I'm very excited.


Lesley Logan 8:52  

How many cities are we going to?


Brad Crowell 8:53  

13 or 14


Lesley Logan 8:54  

It's the reason we're recording prior to the announcement, so we don't know, but what I can say is it's probably mostly sold out, so you want to go to OPC. I can confidently say that.


Brad Crowell 9:04  

Yeah, I mean, we're getting close to.


Lesley Logan 9:07  

Well, because these are not conventions, these are literal pop-ups. These are small studios, we're talking small classes and workshops, and we do that so instead of having 50 people in a workshop, there's 25 and you can actually get to talk to me, and we get to take pictures, and we get to nerd out on Pilates. And the workshops are only 90 minutes. You don't have to take a whole day off, you can just take a part of a day off, and you get to be with other people. And Balanced Body is sponsoring our tour again, and so we'll have the Contrology equipment with us, plus some really fun prizes. So, opc.me/tour.


Brad Crowell 9:41  

opc.me/tour come join us.


Lesley Logan 9:43  

If you're new here.


Brad Crowell 9:45  

If you're new here.


Lesley Logan 9:46  

I make flashcards with Pilates exercises, and they have QR codes that take you to videos, and they have the setup and action on the back, and they have really cool tips that I gave you that are my words based on these things. If you like the way that I talk about Pilates, they're right there. And they've been edited by a contemporary trained teacher with contemporary women, and they've been edited by someone who's never done any of the stuff before. Shout out to the spine corrector, because after that, she wanted to buy one. So that's how good that deck is. So, go to opc.me/flashcards.


Brad Crowell 10:12  

Yeah, opc.me/flashcards


Lesley Logan 10:15  

And if you have the flashcards, do you know that we have posters, and you can get our posters at opc.me/posters? And you want to know something fun about the posters: we make no money on them. However, the shipping, because they're printed on demand, the shipping is cheaper because it's usually shipping to near you versus the flashcards, which come from us. By the way, my Aussies and my Canadians, we have distributors on the flashcards, so just reach out to us if shipping shocked the hell out of you. We have distributors in Australia and Canada.


Brad Crowell 10:44  

Yeah, awesome. Well, we used to do a question answer session here, but we're going to skip that. We've moved all the live Q&As over to YouTube for Sunday morning at 9 a.m. Pacific, and we shifted our focus here because we really like celebrating good works that other people are doing, and sharing about it with you all. 


Lesley Logan 11:06  

Being more aware about things, just the different things that exist out there, and the different ways we can support things that might be of interest. And so July is actually an awareness month of a lot of awarenesses. So when I looked up July month.


Brad Crowell 11:22  

It's a month of awarenesses.


Lesley Logan 11:23  

Yeah, one of the things that July is an awareness month about is the ADA laws, and it's like a Disability Pride Awareness Month. It's also an awareness month of mental health awareness for minority communities.


Brad Crowell 11:36  

ADA for non-Americans, it's the Americans with Disabilities Act, ADA. So, yeah, and that was a big fight that started in California many years back.


Lesley Logan 11:45  

Yes, I learned a lot about it. It's very impressive. Yeah, and so anyways, I wanted to highlight the mental health awareness for minority communities on today's episode, because last time we did a recap, we actually did talk about mental health, and I just thought it would be a perfect time to bring that up. This charity is Mental Health America, and they actually have a lot of information and support for BIPOC mental health specifically. And if you go to mhanational.org, they actually have a whole section, because they do have a lot of support for the BIPOC community. Culture, ethnicity, and race all play a large role in the way that each person experiences the world and the types of mental health support that they may need. MHA's online BIPOC Mental Health Resource Center offers a wealth of information and tools to bring light to the unique experiences of Black, Indigenous, and people of color communities and empower and uplift BIPOC individuals on their mental health journeys. And I just thought that this is a really cool resource in case you need it, or there's someone that you know who needs it. Because the reality is, is that if you have had a different experience in this world, having a therapist or someone who can understand that is important, and it's key. And I just think that, how cool that there are people who are making sure that resource is easy to find. They'll have blog posts, but they actually have a whole resource page where you can find someone and find some help near you, especially with the shit going on in the world right now. Specifically in the US, I know we have a lot of international listeners, but they just fucked with the Voting Rights Act one more time.


Brad Crowell 13:15  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 13:16  

And we are back to Jim Crow era shit, and it sucks, because the answer to all this is that we all have to vote in November in a way that tells them to fuck off, but also, people of color have been trying to do that for a really long time. You and I were listening to what's his name, that amazing senator from Georgia, who's a reverend, and he's like, "I lived my whole life under that act, and now my children have to fight..."


Brad Crowell 13:44  

Raphael Warnock


Lesley Logan 13:45  

Raphael Warnock. "My children have to fight for their rights," and I just...


Brad Crowell 13:50  

Yeah, I mean, it's.


Lesley Logan 13:51  

Top of life.


Brad Crowell 13:52  

It's fascinating to hear him talk about that, where he's like, you know, I don't know how old he is, but he's an adult, he's a senator, he's been a pastor for a long time. He has two kids who are younger than 10 years old, and he said, "For me, because of the changes that happened in the '60s, I actually grew up in a more equitable time that allowed me to become a senator as a person of color," and he said, "Unfortunately, my kids are not going to have that."


Lesley Logan 14:23  

And what they're doing in Tennessee, where they just literally got rid of the one Black Congress person, just terrible stuff. And that's all just... even if you're like, "Well, that's politics," well, politics affects life, and on top of that, if your job and all these different things just becomes really heavy, we need to make mental health support seem like the same thing as you're gonna go get new toothpaste, or you get your things done, like you go to the dentist for cleaning twice a year, we go three. Mental health support needs to be as routine and normal as all of that, and also if you're BIPOC community, I think it's important that you have people who understand what you're going through, because it is different.


Brad Crowell 15:05  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 15:05  

And you're not alone. So, hopefully, mhanational.org resource helps you. If not, and there are other ones out there that you want us to highlight, please send it in. We would love to do that. We'd love to use the platform to do that to help people who need that.


Brad Crowell 15:19  

Yeah, so leave us a voicemail, 310-905-5534, or you can also share your wins for our Friday pod at beitpod.com/questions. 


Brad Crowell 15:31  

Let's talk about Julian Barnes. Julian is the co-founder and CEO of the BFS Network, the company behind the most comprehensive market research in the boutique fitness industry. He spent 20-plus years helping fitness and wellness businesses build the structure and strategy they need to grow, and he works directly with CEOs and founders of multi-location studios across the country. He brings a data-driven, numbers-first perspective to the work of building a profitable studio.


Lesley Logan 15:59  

Yeah.


Brad Crowell 16:00  

And it's really interesting too, because I mean, his background is law, and then he... I don't remember exactly how he got into fitness, but. 


Lesley Logan 16:07  

He told the whole story. It's very weird how he got into it, but. 


Brad Crowell 16:10  

He told us his story, but it wasn't, it was when we were.. we were talking about.


Lesley Logan 16:15  

Oh, sorry guys, it was definitely at dinner, but it was like, "Oh, he was helping this out, then he did this thing, there was his trainer." It's really kind of cool. Too bad that that's not on the pod, because it doesn't matter, because that was not what he wanted to talk about. But it really went along with Adrian Starks's finding your purpose kind of a thing. So, at any rate, just know that Julian is the evidence of doing that. If you listened two weeks ago, you know, it's interesting, because a lot of people think that studios are only studios if they have multiple teachers and group classes and things like that, and I think.


Brad Crowell 16:47  

Maybe the word "legitimate studio," right? Because they are still obviously a studio, a real studio, or whatever.


Lesley Logan 16:55  

But you and I see a studio as anything where a teacher is teaching in, and that studio could be a one-person show.


Brad Crowell 17:03  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 17:04  

And that person can teach small groups and groups and things like that. And so it was interesting to hear the different ways that, in air quotes, legitimate studios are doing things, the numbers they have. But on the non-data side, one of the things I love that he said was there's no transformation without the transaction, and this is really important, because for any business owner who is listening to this, people don't buy your process. I'll just be really honest with you, please don't tell them your process, no one cares. But they cannot get the transformation they want to have, the goal they want to achieve, without paying you the investment of what that is, that's just part of the deal. If they want to have better posture.


Brad Crowell 17:45  

There's no transformation without the transaction, yes, but let's, before we go further on that, can we take a step back? What do you mean specifically? What's an example of "don't sell the process"? Because how are people actually making a mistake with that? 


Lesley Logan 18:02  

What does thatlook like? They're saying, "We have classes on three days a week at 10 a.m. and your package of six sessions allows you to come two times a week." That's selling the process, right? "You come three days a week at 10 a.m." or "Mat classes are at 6 o'clock" or "At our studio, we have mat, semi-private, and private sessions on the Cadillac Tower." All of that's process. It's overwhelming information. It's words that they don't want to hear.


Brad Crowell 18:30  

It doesn't even mean anything to them.


Lesley Logan 18:31  

Even if they know what most of that stuff is. That's not what they actually care about. They care that you understand the problem that they have and where they want to grow, and that you are excited and a trustworthy person for that, and I think where a lot of people. 


Brad Crowell 18:50  

And that's what they will pay for.


Lesley Logan 18:51  

Yeah, as well. Yoga Works doesn't exist anymore, it's a perfect example. Their entire advertising model was "first two weeks free, your first two weeks are free." That's a process, right? They were not selling "get meditated in 14 days or less" or "de-stress from traffic," right? They weren't selling what you were gonna gain from doing the yoga for two weeks, whereas if they had actually talked more about how you would feel when you left the yoga class.


Brad Crowell 19:29  

Sure.


Lesley Logan 19:30  

I think more people would take them up on that for two weeks free, because it's like, "Wow, two weeks free, this class must be full." No, they weren't, and they're not in business. But I see this all the time in people posting about their Pilates stuff: "Hey, I've got, I'm opening up two spots on Mondays and Wednesdays." Unless someone already trusts you, that's unhelpful. Launa Jae, who's been on our show, has done this really well: "Hey, I'm opening in two weeks, I'm moving four spots for women over 40 who are tired of yo-yo dieting, and they want to actually make a change that lasts a lifetime."


Brad Crowell 20:03  

Right.


Lesley Logan 20:03  

You can hear the difference, right? "I'm accepting four new clients," or "In two weeks I will have four spots available for this type of person."


Brad Crowell 20:11  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 20:12  

That is listing the transformation someone's gonna have. She doesn't say, "And when you sign up, you'll have to do eight weeks of macro counting." No, she's not saying that, because no one wants to do that. That's too much information. Yeah, and then we get this a lot, because people will say, "Pilates is too expensive." People have been saying Pilates is too expensive since it was fucking cheap. People have been saying Pilates is too expensive since I started teaching, and people weren't even charging $1 a minute, right, for a private session. But you have to understand that if people are making decisions based on cost, they will always do that. You have to bring it back to the investment of the transformation they want to have, and how badly do they want to have that? 


Brad Crowell 20:51  

Yeah, that's the shift.


Lesley Logan 20:52  

Some people don't actually want to pay the investment that the transformation would cost, so those people will always be looking for a deal, constantly frustrated. They're the ones who are buying this silly tool this week, and the next thing over here, they're bouncing around. But there are people when, if you reframe it to the investment for what you want to achieve, as Julian said, the investment you want to achieve for your desired goal is going to be one of time and money, right? So you change the word to investment, and then in doing that, you're going to shift the mindset from cost to investment, right? Which is a really good shift you want to make in someone's brain, because they invest in things all day long. They invest time in scrolling on their Instagram, they invest time in being in traffic, they invest time on a lot of different things. So, how can we shift the investment of time and money to something that actually works for them? When I was teaching mat classes only, and I was trying to get people in them, I would say, "Stop spending time in traffic, spend that hour in Pilates and get home in 20 minutes after,"


Brad Crowell 21:54  

Right.


Lesley Logan 21:54  

So I had people literally come to my mat class two nights a week that I had it, and they loved it, because instead of sitting in traffic for 90 minutes, they did an hour of Pilates, and then it takes them 25 minutes to get home, same amount of time, but they actually got a transformation to go with it. So really shifting that mindset. And then when people do ask for discounts, you have to have some confidence in the product that you have. I keep telling our agency members, "You need to have courage and conviction in what you do," and that also means telling people how they have to be to be a client of yours. My trainer has so much courage and conviction, she is like, "You cannot be a client of mine if you can't commit to this many times." Yeah, and I really do think that if a lot more Pilates instructors said that, yes, they might have fewer clients in the beginning, but I actually think they would have more later, because the transformation of their clients that they're getting would get them more clients.


Brad Crowell 22:44  

Yeah, I think this is a perfect transition into what I was hoping to talk about, which is... there was a moment where he was talking about Steve Jobs and the iPhone, right? And he's like, he wasn't like, "Hey, do you think it'd be cool if maybe you guys might want..." none of that. It was like, "Hey, check out this amazing tool that we built that's gonna change your life


Lesley Logan 23:07  

Yeah.


Brad Crowell 23:07  

radically," right? And he said, so he was talking about confidence, right? And there's a difference between polling your audience and getting feedback, and how do you present the thing that you sell or do, right?


Lesley Logan 23:21  

Absolutely certain that there were NDAs signed of people who were looking at the iPhone before we got it. 


Brad Crowell 23:27  

Yeah, but Julian pointed out that you have to be confident enough that the universe will present you what you need when you need it, riht? 


Lesley Logan 23:35  

Yeah.


Brad Crowell 23:36  

And that is a scary thing. That is the "leap and the net will appear" kind of approach, right? And obviously, that's definitely something that gets severely tested, and Julian acknowledged that, for sure, especially when you have financial needs, and the wrong clients are coming through your door, but saying... y'all were talking about clients, and the clients that will stay with you for the long haul or not, right? And it's always a scramble at first, like we'll take anybody who comes in the door, but what if our messaging, like we were just talking about, was attracting the correct person who we want to serve and is excited to get the transformation? Yeah, they're going to stay with you way, way longer. And I am... I don't know if you picked up on it if you listened to the interview, but I was so proud because we had a bunch of agency members fill out his big questionnaire, and he compared agency members' stats against the industry stats. And what he said was that agency members retain their clients longer. Yeah, and I was really, really excited to hear that.


Lesley Logan 24:49  

Yeah and it's because our Agency members, even their process to become a client of theirs sets them up so that they're not getting these crazy wackos that just want to bounce from place to place. They are actually set up to make sure that they are the right client, they're advertised in the right place. One of our members is actually changing her website to being specifically their Pilates studio for women over 40.


Brad Crowell 25:15  

Cool.


Lesley Logan 25:15  

Right? Because she's like, "I'm tired of getting calls from 20-year-olds who are comparing me to this other studio over here. That's not what we offer. And even if they can't afford my intro offer, they don't like the classes because they're not for Pilates princesses." And it's like, right. So, there are women who are fucking tired, like, "I want to go to Pilates, but all these Pilates princesses are pictured." And so this client of ours has women over 40 pictured. That's going to matter so much to them, right. And so I am so proud of our agency members. They have solid businesses, and you have a business you can depend on, you're not going off what the trends are. And I really think that right now the Pilates bubble is bursting in several ways. One, Hailey Bieber just announced that too many studios are out there, and they're crappy teachers. Hailey Bieber wrote this. And then The Guardian did an entire article about how people are getting hurt all the time doing Pilates. And here's the thing: if you were doing real Pilates, you could not get hurt if you were actually ready for the exercise that you're doing. Most of the time, people are getting injuries because they're in large group classes that are not on real reformers, and or their teacher was not trained thoroughly enough, and so the teacher's boss is all about how fun the class is and how entertained and how packed the classes are versus the results that they're getting. And I think Julian would back me up on this. Going back to the transformation you want to have and the investment you have to have: I have to get you that transformation, which means you have to show up, but I have to have the teachers that are quality. And so I actually think between the recession that we are all expecting to show up and the fact that people are not going to see the results they want by studios where the people aren't trained fully.


Brad Crowell 27:04  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 27:05  

I do see the pendulum swinging now. How far is it? It's not going to swing that far if you are a solid studio that truly knows what you're doing and why you do it, and you're not begging people to take class for you by offering it for free, but instead you're like, "If you want to participate here, here's how often you have to come, here's the transformation we can provide you, and here's how we do that." You come every other week, I can't get you shit.


Brad Crowell 27:26  

Yeah, and being real with them. That's where that confidence comes into play, having the confidence to know that the universe will present you what you need when you need it. I remember trying to convince clients, I remember how much time I spent trying to convince clients that we were the right agency for them, or coaching group for them, or web development company for them, or whatever. And it always felt like I'm really good at that, but then we would land a client and they were just the fucking worst client. They never delivered the photos that they said that they had, or they never gave me copy, and so ultimately I'd start this project, we would take a deposit, start the project, and then get stuck, right? Or we would have clients come in, they'd pay us one time for coaching, and then they would never participate, and then they would disappear. And that just felt like such a waste of effort on both our time and theirs.


Lesley Logan 28:25  

Totally.


Brad Crowell 28:26  

That time payment didn't feel worth it. It certainly wasn't satisfying. We didn't help them, right? And so.


Lesley Logan 28:31  

It's also why we've even changed how agency operates now, because it definitely is only attractive to people who are willing to actually do the work.


Brad Crowell 28:39  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 28:39  

You have to do the work. You can't just do calls with me or Brad every quarter and whine and whatever, and then go, "Well, I got this action, I can go make a checklist, and I can feel like I did something new." No, Agency now requires you to ask a lot of questions, put your problem in there, go watch a course, come to an office hour, ask which course to watch, ask what next steps to take, like, you actually have to do the action. And the reason I love that more, even though it's definitely not a sexier sell, is that what we do actually fucking works. I know that, and the people who've listened to us have been with us for years, and when they do the work, it works. Period, end of story. And we recently were at an event, and I saw one of our ex-Agency members who paid because they wanted the transformation, but didn't want to do the work. And then this person would also do the things I said not to do all the time, and then they would come back with a problem. And it's like, "Okay, with the contract you've already signed, there's not a lot I can do, because you made a contract without asking our opinions, and then you signed it." And that person is like, "Yeah, I've just been so overwhelmed, and I'm closing these two studios, I'm doing this, I'm just downsizing a lot." And I just wanted to go, "I fucking told you." Yeah, but here's the thing: I have courage and conviction in how we coach and who we are for, and I know what we can do with people who will do the work. And that means, though, you have to also have courage and conviction in what you offer as a studio. And if that means telling someone, "I actually don't work with clients who are in and out every single week, unless they're gonna do homework, and if you're gonna do homework, it means you have to do it three to four days a week." You have to tell people, "I just don't work with those people, because I don't want to take your money, that's dirty money." Any studio that takes your money and tells you that they can get you what you want, and you're only going to come in once a week or every couple of weeks, is lying to you. If you educate people on that, I'm telling you, you will get a great client. And here's why I can tell you this with my own courage and conviction, with another story: I used to sell a teacher training program for Equinox, and I would always ask people, "Where are you in your research process? Oh, I'm the first person you're talking to? Great, let me explain to you how training programs are not apples to apples. Let me explain to you what it is that you need to be looking for, what questions to be asking." By the way, these are all in my book. "What questions to be asking, what you need to be experiencing, what these things are. When you go and look to other places, I want you asking these questions, because if they don't have answers that work with your life, it does not matter the price, you will be stuck. So I can tell you right now, based on the local programs that I know that exist, we are more expensive on paper, but here's where we solve a lot of those problems. Why don't you go back, do your research, call me back, let's do another thing." I could follow up with them, and there'd be people who say, "You're too expensive, that's too much time, I can't make blah blah blah." And then they would come back and they'd sign up, because they would go do the research, and they would realize that on paper, while we're more expensive, we actually have more things. So you have to have that with people, because if someone's gonna price shop, they're gonna price shop, but I can tell you why. "Oh, well, we're more expensive than them because we're three people, not 12." Hello, educate them. They don't know.


Brad Crowell 31:53  

Yeah, they don't know. 


Lesley Logan 31:55  

So you're getting resentful of them, but they don't know what they don't know. You have to say.


Brad Crowell 31:58  

Yeah can also say something like, "Our teachers have 600 hours of certifications under their belt," or something like that.


Lesley Logan 32:04  

Yeah, when people would do that when we were at the studios, like, "Oh, well, this is more expensive than the Pilates across the street." "Yeah, well, those teachers can only teach on one item, they can only teach on a Reformer, and that's all they're trained on. These are comprehensively trained teachers. These people did at least nine months to a year of training, they spent $8,000-plus, and they have access to all this equipment to get you the goals you want. But if you have to go off of that investment, I get it, go do it over there." Anyways, well, I could keep talking for hours, but we should get to the Be It Action Items, because clearly, I love Julian's data, and I love that we can help people. Knowing what the data is really helps us understand where they are in their business and what they have to focus on. Because you're not going to focus on new clients and retention at the same time. If you have great retention, you don't need new clients.


Brad Crowell 32:51  

Right.


Lesley Logan 32:52  

You know, you don't need as many anyways. Okay.


Brad Crowell 32:54  

Yeah. Well, stick around, we'll be right back. All right. So, finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items: what bold, executable, intrinsic, or targeted action items can we take away from your conversation with Julian Barnes? He said on client commitment and transformation, Julian said that the first step in the transformation is transforming your daily routine. He emphasized that people need to adopt a new routine, one that says, "I'm coming on Tuesday morning, Thursday after work, and Saturday morning. I'm committed to this change," right? For studio owners, you are more likely to be successful if you present a prescription that gives your client the opportunity to adopt a new routine from day one.


Lesley Logan 33:41  

Yeah.


Brad Crowell 33:41  

Right? Like, think about it, if you've got a person coming in the door and you try to get them to make a change, let's say you've had a client for a really long time, and then you try to get them to make a change, do they make the change? Very rarely, right? People get annoyed at change, they get frustrated at change, they like what they like, they like what they have. But if you set that precedent right out of the gate, this is how people get change here.


Lesley Logan 34:08  

Yes, right, I love that. Well, also, I had a client who was always late, and they'd always apologize, and I had a client before them and after them, and I never gave them more time, and they weren't asking. I said, "Hey, don't apologize to me. This is on you. If you only want a 45-minute session, I have no problem with that. But if you want the full session, you have to ask yourself why you don't feel worthy enough to have a full session so that you can figure out how you have to leave work early. But that's the change you have to make. It has to be based on what you want, it can't be on me." And you know what? She was never late again.


Brad Crowell 34:41  

Yeah, it's a great example, because what Julian said, which I thought was kind of snuck in there again, he said, "Keep your power."


Lesley Logan 34:52  

Yeah.


Brad Crowell 34:53  

Right? We have power. The power is that we are the authority figure, right? And I mean, not in a tyrant kind of a way, but you can say to someone, "This is how it works here, this is how we see people have success here, and this is what we recommend for you."


Lesley Logan 35:10  

I think we'll just go into my action takeaway, which is like, if you're actively listening to what they have to say, you literally hear what they are, and you use those words, and you connect them to how your services are offered, then you have to step into the authority, because they came to your house.


Brad Crowell 35:26  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 35:26  

If this person came to your house, and you are a "no shoes in the house" person, would you just go, "I guess I'll let them wear shoes"? No, this is a no-shoes house, right? It's a no-shoes house. So, if you are like... I always tell people, take my shoes off, we don't, but you're the person who does, how come you can't be that at the business where you actually are an authority? This is where, I think a lot of people have doubt about the benefits that they can have, because they themselves have forgotten their own practice.


Brad Crowell 35:53  

Sure.


Lesley Logan 35:54  

And they themselves have not made any clients actually have consistency, and so they're not actually having the benefits to back up their power. But you have 100 years of Joe Pilates's work working to go off of. So if you are a new teacher, you have 100 years, literally 100 years. This is the year, this year is 100 years that he came to the United States to go off of this, and then you go... I'll give you the advice that I was given, and we'll wrap this up. My first week as a teacher at a studio at Equinox, this teacher said to me, "The best advice they can give you is to get one client and make them your own, like, make them obsessed with you, and you'll have all the clients." And I made those clients obsessed with me, and they did start getting results, results that they weren't getting with their other Pilates instructor, because I got them from... right, because that other Pilates instructor let them come and go. So, please, I was like, "Nope, you have to make up that session you're about to miss next Sunday. I'll see you on Friday. Let's do it. Let's go. I'll make the time." And it's because, one, I need the money, but two, I listened to that advice, and that advice gave me conviction and authority to sit here today and tell you, if you make people be consistent, they get results.


Brad Crowell 37:05  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 37:06  

So be the boss. They came to you.


Brad Crowell 37:08  

Yeah, they came to you. Don't give away your power.


Lesley Logan 37:11  

If you need help with that, if you need these pep talks, you should just go to agency.


Brad Crowell 37:15  

Yeah, this couldn't be an easier segue here. 


Lesley Logan 37:19  

I mean, so profitablepilates.com/agency go there. We have for sure, at the time that we're recording this, one amazing way to work with us. It's quite possible the second way, which is a secret, is available. I'm not sure.


Brad Crowell 37:31  

It's possible.


Lesley Logan 37:32  

possible. And if you don't see it, then you book a call with Brad, and you ask him which one is best for you and what's going on there. But we can help you. We can help you.


Brad Crowell 37:40  

We can certainly support you with these things.


Lesley Logan 37:42  

Yep.


Brad Crowell 37:42  

And you can keep your clients longer, too.


Lesley Logan 37:44  

Yeah, you get all the benefits that our clients get.


Brad Crowell 37:47  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 37:47  

And also, guess what? You get a predictable, boring business, which is so nice. Go be entertained by your streamers, not by your business. Okay, life's stressful enough. I don't need an up and down on my business to be what's going on, what I'm going my vibes off of. Okay, I'm Lesley Logan.


Brad Crowell 38:04  

And I'm Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 38:05  

Thank you so much. I hope this was fun. It was an interesting deep dive into the industry, and Julian, his company does some really great work that is on the data. So, BFS is the company. We'll put the links in the show notes. Share this with a Pilates instructor friend who needs to hear it.


Brad Crowell 38:21  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 38:22  

And until next time, Be It Till You See It.


Brad Crowell 38:24  

Bye for now.


Lesley Logan 38:26  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.


Brad Crowell 39:08  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 39:13  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.


Brad Crowell 39:17  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.


Lesley Logan 39:25  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.


Brad Crowell 39:28  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.



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