721. Irish Sessions, Etiquette, and Starting New

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39:51

Being a beginner as an adult is its own kind of awkward, and most of us just call it nerves. Irish traditional musician and award-winning podcast host Tara Connaghan says that is not it at all. The real problem is that nobody handed you the rules of the room. She takes Lesley through the four stages of learning, why the frustrating middle is where most people quit, and the rock bottom that gave her clarity.

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In this episode you will learn about:

  • Why five to ten minutes of practice a day beats one long session.
  • The trouble with joining sessions built for high level musicians.
  • What makes correcting an adult learner harder than correcting a child.
  • Why boundaries make newcomers feel safe and know if they fit.
  • How to pick a group that matches your current skill level.


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Episode Transcript:

Tara Connaghan 0:00  

It's too intimate to be putting pressure on it because I did lose it. So I put my hands on my heart because I feel like it's here. The music, when I play it, it's here. I suppose maybe because it is a fiddle as well, or a violin, but it's something so close, and I have lost it. I did lose it for a while, and if I lost it again, I don't know if I could survive that second loss. 


Lesley Logan 0:22  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world, and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity, and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring bold, executable, intrinsic, and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and be it till you see it. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. 


Lesley Logan 1:03  

Okay, Be It babe. Here's the deal: we have a unique topic on the podcast, but actually, we go extremely applicable to your life, if anything. We're going to talk about learning. We're going to talk about rock bottoms. We're going to talk about etiquette with the types of people that you're wanting to be around, and I think it's just quite fun. Tara's my new Irish friend that I didn't know I needed. Her name's Tara Connaghan, and she actually is an award-winning podcast host, and she teaches people how to play Irish music and also be in Irish sessions and the etiquette for that. And you're, what? But all of it is, I think, really the conversation is so helpful because if you want to be it till you see it, and I want to be in a pickleball league, or I want to be teaching X thing, or I want to learn this new skill, some of the things we have to understand is the process of learning, and then the etiquette of how do we join these groups? What are those things? So it's really quite fun. I can't wait for you to hear her, and then you'll have to check out her award-winning podcast because that's so great. Here is Tara Connaghan. 


Lesley Logan 1:59  

All right, Be It babes. This is going to be fun. This is going to be totally interesting. It's a topic I've definitely never had a guest on before, and that means we get to learn something new, but also learn things that we can use along our way to something unique. So, Tara Connaghan is our guest today. Tara, can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at? 


Tara Connaghan 2:18  

Hi, Lesley. I am an Irish traditional musician. I love playing Irish music. I love playing music in Irish music sessions, particularly. I'm from the northwest of Ireland, which is Donegal, which is kind of, it's not part of Northern Ireland, but it's more northerly than Northern Ireland. But it's geographically Northern Ireland, but not politically, if that makes sense. So we're in the Republic of Ireland. Very confusing. And I've lived all over Ireland. I've lived around the world a couple of bits, but mostly I'm always kind of living around Ireland. But I'm back in Donegal now for the last maybe 12 years, and I just love sessions. But I teach adults a lot, and they're always worried about joining into sessions because they're maybe newcomers to the sessions. So I always thought it was performance anxiety that was the problem, but actually, what's feeding the performance anxiety is that they don't know the etiquette to joining sessions. And so that was why I decided to start a podcast almost a year ago about etiquette, teaching people the etiquette of joining sessions, and I'm learning so much. Oh my God, it's amazing. 


Lesley Logan 3:21  

Okay, there's so many things I want to talk about because, first of all, what are sessions, and then to know what the etiquette is, but also it just goes into a lot of us do label something performance anxiety or just blanket anxiety when really it's we don't know how to be a beginner, we don't know how to enter something new. We don't know how to... It's hard to join a group because when you're an adult, all the groups are already kind of filled, and you're, I've got to join in on something, and they already know everything, and I don't know, and we don't know how to be beginners. Is that kind of what's happening? 


Tara Connaghan 3:50  

Totally, totally, yeah. 


Lesley Logan 3:52  

Okay, so just so we have the definitions, what are sessions, and what is the etiquette? 


Tara Connaghan 3:56  

A session can be lots of... There's lots of different types of sessions and different functions for sessions, but the main session is that it's a group of musicians who get together to play Irish music. 


Lesley Logan 4:09  

Okay. 


Tara Connaghan 4:09  

That's kind of the simplest term or the simplest way of explaining it. It's people who kind of know what Irish music is, and they want to play it with each other, and they want to kind of share their music together, and it's like a team. It's a team. 


Lesley Logan 4:22  

Okay, like you're making a band, but you're not a band, like a group. 


Tara Connaghan 4:25  

Yes, yeah. But there's no... Usually there's... Well, I say usually. A session is usually something without microphones, although sometimes it has microphones because it's maybe for tourists or maybe it's a noisy pub or something. So usually the ones that are in the corner with no microphones, they're just playing to each other. 


Lesley Logan 4:44  

It's like jazz when they get together and they just play together. Okay, so there can be sessions of any kind, but sessions for this would be the Irish musicians getting together. And then is the etiquette different for the Irish music versus, I guess, any musician, or what does that look like? 


Tara Connaghan 5:00  

I don't think it's particularly different. There may be slight differences. I think maybe one of the things is that you could be playing in a session with some of your heroes. They're quite accessible. Irish traditional musicians almost would be classed as... they're professionals but amateurs. 


Lesley Logan 5:17  

Okay, okay. 


Tara Connaghan 5:18  

Because they're not all making a living from it. Okay, so you could have some of the highest-quality Irish musicians playing in a session. You might have just come across, or maybe you've never heard Irish music before, and you walk in and you could be listening to some of the most amazing musicians. 


Lesley Logan 5:35  

That's so cool. I love this. I love this. So this is... I am grateful for the definitions because you're an expert in this area, but this is the thing for a lot of things, right? You could be in a chess group or a mahjong or pickleball. I'm a Pilates instructor who travels to teach Pilates instructors, and I find that if I want to just be in the group, sometimes the nervousness from the other people who maybe watch my videos or things like that, they get nervous and they have this performance anxiety, and it's like we're just here to kind of hang out. So, I guess if we could take it in a broad sense, how did you get here? Because we don't wake up going, "I'm gonna teach this." You know what I mean? It's not like what you tell someone in kindergarten. "When I grow up, I'm gonna teach Irish music." So, can you go back to your journey? 


Tara Connaghan 6:23  

I mentioned that I teach the adults mostly. I have a fortnightly fiddle class that I do, and I also teach at different summer schools or camps or things that we would teach music at throughout the year. And for the last... I've been playing music for nearly 40 years. Oh my god, I am playing music for 40 years. Oh god, that just dawned on me. Oh my god. 


Lesley Logan 6:45  

That's amazing, though, but it's annoying because, wow, so much clout, and also, oh, I'm older than I thought. 


Tara Connaghan 6:53  

Yes, yeah, yeah. So I've been teaching a long time. I do prefer to teach adults. I just have a natural sort of bond because an adult wants to be there. They're putting all their time and their energy, and they really want to be there. Whereas kids, the parents want them to be there. So I just want to be with people who want to do something, and then I can help them. If they don't want to be there, then I can't help them. So in every workshop, even though it's more about repertoire, when you're in the workshop we're like, we learn this tune and we learn this tune and we learn... So we might learn maybe three tunes a day or maybe one tune, depending on the levels of people. And always within one of those workshops or classes or camps, there will always be questions. Once one person asks, "Do I have enough tunes to start, to play in a session? Or can I sit there? Am I allowed to do this? Am I allowed to do that? Do you have to have this?" There's so many questions, and because there's so many unknowns, and they don't know the answers, they are terrified. And then when you're anxious and terrified, you probably do actions that you wouldn't normally do. 


Lesley Logan 8:02  

You make mistakes because the nerves are taking away the ability to be present. 


Tara Connaghan 8:08  

Yes, yeah, yeah. And then they start... Then things happen, and they're like, "Oh, and such-and-such gave out to me for doing something." And I think we've all been given out to. It's a natural sort of... If we go back to the animal kingdom, there's kind of a natural, "Look, you don't do that. You don't do that. Don't do this," and you're kind of almost like a cat would do to its kitten. 


Lesley Logan 8:31  

Yeah. 


Tara Connaghan 8:33  

It's not that you're trying to say you shouldn't be... There's no kind of "you shouldn't" or whatever. But it's just kind of a, "No, no, no. Wait this," or "Wait for your turn," or "Wait to this." So it's kind of the natural... You're teaching the natural language of your culture, whatever. But that's normally given to children. 


Lesley Logan 8:51  

Right. 


Tara Connaghan 8:52  

It's very hard to give that to an adult who is your peer in terms of age, but not your peer in terms of skill, and that's a really difficult thing to do. So Irish people are very, very bad at giving feedback. They don't want to offend anybody, so we just say nothing, and then things can blister away and fester. 


Lesley Logan 9:11  

I wonder if anyone is good at giving feedback very often because we're not trained at that. You don't go to college and learn, "Okay, in your life, if you have to give feedback to someone, this is the way you give it." That's not anything anyone's trained in. So if your culture is more, "We're just not going to say anything at all," it's just going to fester and blister, and we'll just put you over there in the corner. Other people will just tell you what it is and honestly cramp someone's spirit. You could just step on a flower. So I think we all have to learn how to be better at feedback, but it's different when students are learning because when you're younger, yes, there are still personality types that are putting pressure on themselves to be perfect. No matter your age, there are different levels to learning. Correct? Because whether or not you are learning Irish music or anything, every learning has a level. 


Tara Connaghan 10:02  

I mean, there's the four stages of learning. So there's when you're totally unconsciously aware. You're completely unaware. So when you were maybe two, your mother tied your shoelaces. You didn't tie your shoes. You didn't even know that shoelaces existed. They're just not in your conscious realm at all. And then maybe as you get... maybe four or five, you're like, "Oh, hold on a second. My mother's tying my shoes. I want to try that." You start getting, "I want to try it." Then there's that stage where you're conscious of it, but you realize how bad you are at it. So your competency level is pretty poor. You're incompetent, but you're consciously incompetent, so you know you're shit at it. 


Lesley Logan 10:45  

That's so hard because it's so frustrating. 


Tara Connaghan 10:48  

So frustrating. You're like, "I can't..." Sorry, I don't know if I can curse. 


Lesley Logan 10:52  

You can curse on this show. Totally. 


Tara Connaghan 10:56  

So you're so frustrated, as you say, and so many people give up at that stage because they're like, "I can't do this. No, I'm out." That sounds like me with surfing or certain things. I'm just like, "No, I can't do this. I'm out." 


Lesley Logan 11:10  

I understand that. With ADHD, I can be okay being bad at something, but I have to get good at it quickly. Otherwise, I'm out. My attention span's not there. But it is interesting. We see that in people in all learning things, right? I teach people how to teach Pilates, and you can see even if they're already teaching Pilates, when they discover that there is stuff that they didn't know they didn't know, then there's a frustration that no one told them, "I didn't know this." But you can't be told, no one is expert at everything when they're new. You just start new. Okay, so then we're pissed off, we're frustrated, and if we don't quit, what happens next? 


Tara Connaghan 11:52  

So if we don't quit and we keep going, then we start getting to a place where we're more competent. We've got a bit more competency. There's a big range within that. You're starting to get competent, and then you grow up to being much more competent, and you're consciously aware that you're competent. So it's maybe when you're six or seven and you're still tying the shoelaces. You can tie them, but it takes a bit of... You're still focusing on it. That takes a huge amount of energy, so it's a very exhausting stage where you're focusing on, "I have to tie the shoe. I have to do this loop and that loop." And your fingers are just faltering at it. The same with playing an instrument. You're kind of like, "I have to watch my left finger..." 


Lesley Logan 12:42  

"...this thing, and then breathe, and then this one." You're still talking yourself through it. Yes.  


Tara Connaghan 12:46  

Or even driving. "I have to put my foot here, and I have to look at the clutch. I have to put on my seatbelt before all of that, and I have to look in the mirror." I have to do this. There's so many things. Your brain is still running through the process of how to do it. Then you get to the last stage, which is you're competent, but you're unconsciously competent. So it's totally, did you remember tying your shoelaces this morning? No. You just did it. It becomes ingrained so that you don't even know that you're doing it anymore, but you can do it. The same with playing the fiddle. I'm thinking of something else because it's unconscious. It's already in the muscle memory of my fingers. It's in the muscle memory of my brain, my elbows, my whole body. My body does it, and then I can focus on, not something else, but something like, the next level, which is, "How do I do it better? How do I do the intricacies?" You're listening and going, "Oh, such-and-such did that. I might do that." You're listening for something else. 


Lesley Logan 13:54  

Yeah, you can take more in. My husband's a musician. That's not me, but I can attribute it to things in my world. I retook a workshop I've taken from this person before, and I thought I was just going to sit there and get reminded of a few quotes I liked from them. Then they said something, and I was like, "What? What is that?" And it was just like, "Oh, I didn't know the thing before that. It wasn't ingrained in me, so I couldn't even pick up on this if I wanted to." It was always there, but I didn't have the capacity to hear it or see it or understand it because I just had to get the muscle memory there so that nuance could even stand out. 


Tara Connaghan 14:35  

And that takes years. We're in such a culture that everything is convenient. It's quick. Everything's fast. But I don't think there's anything that can replace just time of learning and putting the time in. 


Lesley Logan 14:52  

Tara, how do you help people do that, though? Because obviously what you do is so unique. But however you help them, we all have to understand that it does take time, and it's hard for adults because there's so much unconscious competence happening because we're in our life. We can drive home without even realizing it. There's just things that we do. It scares the fuck out of me every time. I'm like, "How did I get here? Whoa." How do you remind adults to be patient to go through the different stages? 


Tara Connaghan 15:18  

It's not easy. None of us like it for anything. I got a sewing machine. I am crap at sewing, because I never did it in school. I did woodwork instead. It just takes it. I just have to remind people it may only be five minutes per day, and then supplement it with a couple of maybe intense weekends or an intense week where you really focus on it, almost like 12-hour days. That really supplements it. But you need the five minutes per day, five to 10 minutes per day. I think, really helps people. 


Lesley Logan 15:53  

Okay, let's dive into that because I think people think, "Oh, I'll just do this on my day off." But if you just do several hours on one day, it's almost... Do you think it's better if they were to do five to 10 minutes per day for six to seven days is better than one day for two hours? 


Tara Connaghan 16:10  

Absolutely, 1,000%. 


Lesley Logan 16:12  

And why? Do we know why? 


Tara Connaghan 16:15  

There are actually studies that show that because you're building up the muscle memory. You don't build it up in one go. You build it up every day. You don't wash your teeth just once a week. 


Lesley Logan 16:27  

Right. Right. 


Tara Connaghan 16:28  

You wash them every day because if


Lesley Logan 16:30  

You washed your teeth for two hours once a week, it wouldn't even make up for it. Even though it's like three times the amount you should brush your teeth, it doesn't even make the difference. 


Tara Connaghan 16:38  

No, it's not going to make the difference because the plaque is already there. It would be too hard to remove it. That's just what it is. And five to 10 minutes, that's nothing. 


Lesley Logan 16:47  

Right. I think that's the hard part because people go, "That's nothing. So does it even matter?" 


Tara Connaghan 16:53  

Yeah. So, tomorrow... I'm learning the concertina as well. I do play the fiddle. I've played the fiddle for almost 40 years, but I have a concertina, which is this little kind of hexagon-shaped instrument. I normally have it at my desk, but I'm not at my desk. I'm actually in New York. 


Lesley Logan 17:10  

Cool. What's a concertina? I gotta look this up. I need a visual. 


Lesley Logan 17:14  

Concertina. 


Lesley Logan 17:16  

Concertina.  


Tara Connaghan 17:17  

Yeah, so, hexagon-shaped. 


Lesley Logan 17:21  

This is... Oh, that's cool. For everyone who's not Googling this while they're driving, please don't. First of all, they're not cheap. It's like an accordion, but a hexagon has six or seven sides. 


Tara Connaghan 17:40  

Your fingers are working from both sides. 


Lesley Logan 17:43  

Yes. 


Tara Connaghan 17:44  

Yes. So it's very petite and dainty. It's a real kind of woman's... 


Lesley Logan 17:50  

It's so beautiful. An accordion is not sexy. Nothing's sexy about an accordion. This is quite cute. This looks like the Victorian era. 


Tara Connaghan 17:56  

Yes. It's very ornate, and designs in it. So I'm learning that now. I had it right beside my computer because you're, especially if you're doing something, and then you need kind of like coffee beans to refresh your brain. So I used to have that, and I'd play for five or 10 minutes. I didn't have access to my concertina for about 15 years because I had lent it to somebody else, and they forgot to give it back to me. Eventually I got it back recently, and I started playing for about five minutes whenever I got bored, well, not bored, but my brain is overworked and overwhelmed and I needed to deep-dive into it for five minutes. The first day I was like, "Oh my god, I can't even remember where the notes are." I was like one-finger typing. 


Lesley Logan 18:45  

I understand. Yeah. 


Tara Connaghan 18:47  

Until, after a couple of weeks, he came down to the office and said, "That actually sounded quite good." 


Lesley Logan 18:55  

Because it came back to you because you just had it. I love what you said, that you had it right next to you. For anything we're wanting to do, my listeners know I was studying the tarot, and unfortunately it got away from me because I had the app, which is great because when I was traveling I couldn't have the cards, but I'm a physical kind of person. So when I was at home, having the cards and the book at my desk, while I'm waiting for the Zoom call to start, I could just read a page. Having those little doses of information actually allows you to take it in. Whereas it's a lot, especially when you're in the incompetence, it's a lot in the brain to do it and you don't retain as much. I'm studying the science of learning right now, I'm really interested in this, and there's a whole lot we have to do self-reflection and self-quizzing. That's actually the best when you're learning anything. You're not waiting for the test to come where you cram, or in music, I guess, the concert to come where you perform. You have to kind of test your skills on your own and then learn from what you don't know. 


Tara Connaghan 0:00  

Yeah, and I think for joining a session as well, you have to learn to play with other people, and that can be a big learning curve as well, because it might be that you've just started an instrument, so this is totally new. You've got a new instrument. Oh my god. I'm still trying to figure out where the notes are. I'm still trying to figure all this out. You're still kind of incompetent. And you need to learn also how to play with other people if you want to join a session. 


Lesley Logan 20:26  

Yeah. 


Tara Connaghan 20:27  

I think those kinds of camps are a great place to do that. They can be big sessions, so you can kind of hide behind people for a while until you get a bit more competency in playing with others because it's a really different skill, being able to listen to yourself while listening to others.


Lesley Logan 20:45  

How do you, how do you get the... Because that's a bit of courage and bravery, to go from playing by yourself in your home to, okay, I'm going to take this. What advice do you have for people who... There's embarrassment, there's nervousness. How do you get over yourself enough to go? Because I'm someone who'd be a fly on the wall until I'm shoved off the cliff. That's kind of me. But how do you get yourself ready?


Tara Connaghan 21:06  

I think it's a good idea, if you're learning from a class situation where you've got classmates, then maybe your teacher might have a once-a-year or once-a-month or once-a-week session where they encourage you to come, if you want to join a session. It's a very gentle process where you're coming into it in a very gentle way. What I would definitely not recommend you do is go into a session where there are high-level musicians who need something totally different. So if you're a beginner musician, you want to be feeling kind of a belonging. You want to sense this sense of community. A high-level musician who's been playing for 40 years, they already have that. What they want is challenge, and you're not going to challenge them if you're a newcomer. So don't be afraid, or don't be... not afraid, but don't be putting yourself in that position. Don't take it personally, I think is what I'm trying to say.


Lesley Logan 22:01  

Well, this makes a lot of sense to me because in life, if you have a skill or there's something you're doing, it's really good to have people who are your equals, so your classmates, like you mentioned. And then there's the people who are below you, in a different level. Playing with people below you builds your confidence because, whoa, I'm not like that anymore, right?


Tara Connaghan 22:19  

Yes.


Lesley Logan 22:20  

Playing with people who are at the same level as you makes you feel comfortable and, okay, I've got my people. But typically, if you're going to play with people who are above you, you'd be paying to play with them. You're in their workshop or you're in their thing because they need people above them to challenge them and people like them who understand what they need. And if they're going to have people below them, it's because they're teaching them.


Tara Connaghan 22:43  

Exactly. And I think it's funny that you should pick that up so quickly because that seems to be something that we've... I suppose we're so close to it, you can't see the wood from the trees when you're so in the middle of it. And so it's only recently that I figured, from conversations actually, that's more of a teaching environment when we're in a session with people that are below us. And that's a very different thing. That's quite draining because you're giving a lot of energy, and you're not.


Lesley Logan 23:10  

Getting yourself filled up. There have to be sessions for the person who's more of the expert to be filled up. I get that totally. I teach a lot of students, and I have no problems doing that. But when I am in the workshop to learn, if people bother me to understand, I'm like, "Oh, I'm not in that brain. I'm here." So I find I'm very particular about the places I go to learn in or be challenged in because I want to stay in that frame. And if you are wanting me to teach you in that space, I'm a little bit... Okay, I've got to get my cup filled.


Tara Connaghan 23:45  

I suppose I would love to be able to say that certain things in certain situations... I think we are quite welcoming.


Lesley Logan 23:54  

Yeah, and that's the hard part because I don't want to stamp on anyone's flowers or anyone's willingness to learn. And I also think they don't understand what they don't... You know what I mean? They don't know that they're just asking a question. And you are an expert, and you are someone who usually teaches. But there has to be a space where you can go be yourself and be challenged.


Tara Connaghan 24:13  

Yeah, yeah. I think so. I have found that some people like to shame skilled musicians for having that, and I'm trying to call that out and go, "No, I'm not happy that that is something that should be definitely there."


Lesley Logan 24:26  

I think that's interesting, right? What an awareness we can have because it's fine to have the need to have the space to be in your creative space or to not be in teaching mode, to be in play mode or creativity mode. And also, how do we remind people of the rules of the space without hurting their feelings or pissing them off or making them feel like they're stupid? I don't know if you have those in Ireland, but people have these signs in their house, like, "In this house, we believe in science," and things like that. There, we believe in these... When you walk into the space, if these-level musicians are playing, you're free to watch, but please write down all questions and save them for your... You know what I mean? It's okay to be in their presence, of course, and be inspired. But this is when you're allowed to ask the questions. I guess it goes back to the etiquette. It's like having rules for... If you're a house that has no shoes on or shoes off, it's kind of like that.


Tara Connaghan 25:25  

Yeah. I suppose it's always being one of those environments that is very spontaneous. So I think when you have a spontaneous environment, the thought of rules makes it really kind of...


Lesley Logan 25:38  

I understand. Yeah. Well, Tanya Dalton, we had her on the show, and she talked about when there are boundaries, everyone can be more creative and have more fun.


Tara Connaghan 25:50  

Yes.


Lesley Logan 25:51  

She explained it, and you guys, I'll put the link in the show notes because I actually don't remember which episode number she is. But she said if there's a school playground and there's no fence, and the teachers tell the kids, "Hey, stay close to the school building to play," you're going to have some kids who literally don't leave the wall. They just play next to the wall. You're going to have some kids who play in the middle, and then you're going to have some kids who are going all the way to the edge because they want to see how far they can go. But if you put the fence up and you say you just have to stay in the fence, then all of a sudden everyone can play. So I guess it's interesting because some people don't want to have rules on things to affect the creativity, but they'll have more creativity if they just have some set rules.


Tara Connaghan 26:35  

Yeah, and I think everybody feels safer as well then if there are some sort of boundaries. Especially newcomers can feel safe because they know, "Right, well, this is maybe not the session for me," or "This one is the session for me."


Lesley Logan 26:47  

Yeah, because I'm the girl who'd be next to the wall because I don't understand. I don't want to fuck it up, and I don't want to embarrass myself, and I don't want to make someone mad. So I would be the person who doesn't even join any session, even the ones at my level, because I wouldn't... So I think that's where it's important. No matter what the thing is that we're joining or learning, we have to understand the etiquette, but also the people above us have to define that so that we can.


Tara Connaghan 27:11  

Yeah, yeah, I guess. 


Lesley Logan 27:12  

Or at least the host of the place. 


Tara Connaghan 27:15  

Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Lesley Logan 27:17  

So Tara, your enthusiasm and joy for what you do is so contagious. I really do love it. How did you get to keep your passion for this? Because I have to imagine that in the 40 years of playing music, Irish music hasn't been famous for all 40 years. How did you keep it going? What did you do? Then you're in this new space where you have this podcast. I guess people listening to this have been doing things for 20 or 30 years, and sometimes they wonder if they should keep doing that. Is it worth doing? How do they know when to stop? What advice do you have for that?


Tara Connaghan 27:55  

I did have a time in my early 30s, which is almost 20 years ago. god, sorry.


Lesley Logan 28:03  

It's all right. I just looked at pictures of myself at 25, and I was like, "Whoa, that was a long time ago."


Tara Connaghan 28:09  

When I arrived in New York a couple of days ago, I had a suitcase, and I was trying to walk up the stairs, carry it up the stairs. And this young fella, I think he was probably about 25 or something, said, "Do you want me to help?" And I was like, "No, no, I've got a friend coming. She's going to help me as well." And he said, "Oh, if this was my mother, I would hope somebody would help me." And I was like, "Oh my god!"


Lesley Logan 28:27  

He was being so sweet, and also...


Tara Connaghan 28:32  

The realization. But of course I could be his mother. But I don't even have kids.


Lesley Logan 28:36  

Tara, I understand. I have friends my age who have kids who are in high school, so I was like, "I could have a high schooler." 


Tara Connaghan 28:44  

Yeah, I could totally have somebody who's gone through college, finished college. Anyway, let's not go there. So in my 30s, I did have a bit of a, wow, I thought I would be somewhere different. I thought things would feel different. There was that kind of realization: Is this it? There was always this kind of, I thought it was going to be different, and I thought it was going to be amazing. I went through maybe not a spiral downwards, but I was just lost for a while. And then, it was kind of a spiral to a couple of things. I had somebody who was really, really close to me pass away, and that person held my future dreams. So that totally took the carpet from underneath me. I was like, "Well, what do I do now?" It was totally the end now. And I think when you get to rock bottom, you go, "What are the things that are actually really important?" That's what I had to do. I just had to go food, water... I mean, we're talking basic. I think I had probably experienced a bit of PTSD at the time, post-traumatic stress disorder, because I couldn't plan ahead. All I could think of was the next hour and what are the basic needs that I need. So food, water, shelter, friendship. And I thought, "You know what? Music is what fills my cup." And so I had to figure out what was the thing that fills my cup? I have loads of interests. What was the one thing that I really wanted? And I think when you get to rock bottom, things become so clear. I'm not advocating for getting to rock bottom, but if you want clarity, you will find it down there.


Lesley Logan 30:37  

I think years ago I heard someone say you can't take someone's rock bottom away. You can give advice, but also, sometimes we don't learn what we need to until we are there. Some of us just need to clear everything away. I have to say, I am so grateful for the rock bottom I had because it was, "Okay, I've got nothing. So if I'm going to add to this nothing, it better be something I want." I don't want to add. It was the first time I had a clean slate. I don't want to add stuff I don't want. So I agree with you.


Tara Connaghan 31:11  

Declutter.


Lesley Logan 31:12  

Yeah.


Tara Connaghan 31:13  

It really declutters the mind, and it really focuses on just the important things. Music was the thing that, it's almost like the light at the end of the tunnel, but it was just something that I had that was present, that was just filling my cup, as you said. So I kept doing that. Not that I was doing it all the time, but when I needed that sort of, because I went home to my parents' house, and I slept for about six months. I didn't go outside the door. I remember having relations saying, "Oh, you can't do that." And I was like, "Please don't ever tell anybody that they can't take the time that they need to recover because I needed that time." It took a good few years, but I needed the six months of complete and utter sleep. Then it took another couple of years before I was able to get back to being a normal person again. I'd say I'm a huge amount stronger because of it, and just more clear. So.


Lesley Logan 32:12  

Yeah.


Tara Connaghan 32:12  

Music is just... yeah. And I think every time I'm in a session, the other thing is if I'm playing for money, it's a job.


Lesley Logan 32:20  

Yeah.


Tara Connaghan 32:22  

So I kind of removed that. Even though I still get paid, I removed the, "Oh, this one is a gig." It's, "I'm going to go and I'm going to play music. Fantastic. If somebody gives me money at the end, great." Sometimes I want to make sure that it's good money at the end, but I looked at it differently. It wasn't for the money. It was for the music, and then somebody gives me money as well, and that's great.


Lesley Logan 32:46  

I appreciate you sharing that journey because I think we all look at other people and go, "Oh my goodness, they must have loved this their whole life," and not realize that there are parts of their lives where they loved it, but they didn't get up for six months. Everyone is on an up-and-down journey that hopefully always ends up, but it's going to have its own nuances. And if we don't take the time we need to find what fills our cup, then I don't know that we get to enjoy it. I feel like life is worth enjoying. Yes, sometimes we get paid for things we love, but also we should do things because we love them.


Tara Connaghan 33:26  

Yeah, totally. So I think that was how I got out of that sort of, "I'm doing it for the money." I don't know if you've ever read Big Magic.


Lesley Logan 33:37  

Obsessed. Great book.


Tara Connaghan 33:39  

Fantastic.


Lesley Logan 33:39  

I'm not sure I agree with her in the more recent years of life, but I love that book. So, everyone must, required reading. So good. Required reading.


Tara Connaghan 33:51  

Yeah. It just gives so much freedom to your creativity as well. It's like, "Oh yeah, that's so cool." It's like it's a muse. You're the host of a creative idea, and you entertain it, or eventually it'll just go, "Look, I'm an idea, and I need to be created. So if you're not going to create me, somebody else will have to do it." Such a great idea.


Lesley Logan 34:14  

You guys, if you're wondering what is she saying, you have to go read the book. It's, ideas want to be born, it's Elizabeth Guilbert, I believe that's her name. She wrote Eat, Pray, Love, and she even shares that she still worked as a professor even after she wrote that book, even after it was a bestseller, even after it became a movie. It was years before she thought, "Okay, I can just be a writer for a living." I think that's a really important lesson for all of us who are doing something we're passionate about because the pressure you put on it changes the joy you get out of it, and also what you create.


Tara Connaghan 34:50  

Yeah. It's too intimate to be putting pressure on it because I did lose it. So I put my hands on my heart because I feel like it's here. The music, when I play it, it's here. I suppose maybe because it is a fiddle as well, or a violin, but it's here anyway. It's something so close, and I have lost it. I did lose it for a while, and if I lost it again, I don't know if I could survive that second loss.


Lesley Logan 35:17  

Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I think that's really important. Tara, you're so fun. We're going to take a brief break and find out where people can find you, follow you, take sessions with you.


Tara Connaghan 35:26  

Yeah.


Lesley Logan 35:28  

All right, Tara. Where do you hang out? They can listen to your podcast. Can anyone play Irish music? Tell us everything.


Tara Connaghan 35:36  

They can listen to it on Spotify, Amazon, Apple, wherever. It's called In Tune with Tradition. There's also the subtitle, Perspectives on Session Etiquette and Irish Traditional Music. There is a website called Session Etiquette. I also have a tour kind of thing coming up, a private session experience in September 2026, at the end of September. We've got a couple of places left on it. It will be in Ireland. Brilliant. I can't wait.


Lesley Logan 36:07  

I feel like September in Ireland is probably good weather. 


Tara Connaghan 36:10  

Sometimes. Actually, do you know when it's been really good weather? It's April. April for the last three or four years has been really good, really dry, sunny. Then the rest of summer's awful, and around September sometimes it can pick up again.


Lesley Logan 36:23  

Feels like Vegas weather, but probably different. April is so beautiful here. Don't take me away, but the summer? Get me out.


Tara Connaghan 36:32  

I'm in New York, and it was really, really hot for the last couple of days. Today is nice. It's just perfect.


Lesley Logan 36:38  

Yeah. That's an interesting place to be when it's too hot. Okay, we've talked a lot about learning and things like that. You've given us so much already, but what bold, executable, intrinsic, or targeted steps do you have for people to be it till they see it?


Tara Connaghan 36:52  

I think they should listen to my podcast, number one. The reason I'm in New York is because it's an award-winning podcast. It has just won some awards.


Lesley Logan 37:01  

Get out. Congratulations. That's amazing!


Tara Connaghan 37:06  

Yay! So, anyway, but more actionable steps: I think life is short. Just pick the thing that fills your cup and go for it.


Lesley Logan 37:15  

Yeah.


Tara Connaghan 37:16  

If that's Irish music, fantastic. If it's not, do the thing that makes you really, really just gives you so much joy and fills your cup because otherwise you'll always be trying to fill your cup with something that can't fill, can't do it.


Lesley Logan 37:31  

I agree. I think that's so true. Oh my gosh, congratulations on your podcast. That's incredible, you guys. That's not an easy thing to do, especially with a new podcast, so way to go, Tara. I agree. I was just watching a show, and it's clear there are people on the show who don't have anything else. They don't have something that fills their cup. My husband's listening to somebody, and they're... If you don't have something that's a hobby, something that's creative, friends and family, and work that gives you purpose, if you don't have those three things, f you take one of those away, you put too much pressure on the other things, and they're never going to give you the tripod. You're going to fall over. So I feel like that's really important for today. I think we all need that information. 


Lesley Logan 38:15  

You guys, go listen to Tara's award-winning podcast. Go listen to it, and go figure out if it's... If you don't know what's filling your cup, maybe it's time to start trying new things and be consciously incompetent for a little bit. It'll get better. Share this with a friend who needs to hear it. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. 


Lesley Logan 38:33  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.


Brad Crowell 39:16  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 39:21  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.


Brad Crowell 39:25  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.


Lesley Logan 39:32  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.


Brad Crowell 39:36  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time. 



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