659. How to Build Focus and Attention in Children Naturally

00:00
39:35

What if the secret to a well-behaved child isn’t more control, but less? In this grounded and eye-opening recap, Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell break down key takeaways from Gail Hugman, an educator with over 50 years of experience helping parents and children grow together. This episode challenges the traditional “because I said so” approach, offering a fresh perspective on how teaching executive function skills—like self-control and focus—can help kids take ownership of their actions. Whether you're navigating homework struggles or leading a team, this conversation offers tools to build responsibility and independence.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co.

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.


In this episode you will learn about:

  • Explaining the "why" behind tasks improves cooperation and understanding.
  • Children are intuitively born to grow and desire more responsibility.
  • Transitioning from controlling children to teaching them internal self-control. 
  • Using natural consequences to help children process their own choices. 
  • The essential order for teaching executive function skills to children. 


Episode References/Links:

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSI

DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipment

Check out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper’s Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipment

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlist

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-survey

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/


Resources:


Follow Us on Social Media:

Episode Transcript:

Brad Crowell 0:00  

Listening to her stories, you know, she is intentional about giving people the tools, like you were just talking about the tools to develop as a child, to grow into the adult that joins the the pack, right, the society, right? And when you are empowering them with the tools, then they can make decisions that are logical and all those kinds of things, instead of just be like, I guess, like, like, think about it. If you're just like, do it. Why? Because I said so. What are you doing? You're actually, you're actually molding a human to always be told what to do.


Lesley Logan 0:37  

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.


Lesley Logan 1:19  

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the grounded convo I have with Gail Hugman. Hugman. 


Brad Crowell 1:27  

Hugman. 


Lesley Logan 1:28  

Yeah, that's right. I'm like, sorry, Gail. I know you're listening, but you know when you're like, oh, all of a sudden, hold on. Did I miss a G, H, whatever. Gail Hugman, she's fucking the best it was in our last episode.


Brad Crowell 1:38  

The two of you. So I listen everything on like, 2x speed. And if I could, I'd probably try to listen to it on 3x speed. And the two of you were like, giggle monsters.


Lesley Logan 1:47  

I'm obsessed with her. Like, I and I was like, when Brad came up, he was halfway through her interview, and he's like, this is amazing. And I was like, Oh, good, because I did go for a second going, am I about to, like, get all the parents to hate me out there, like, like, I don't want to be, because here's the deal, I understand, I don't have children. I get that. I don't understand the day to day. I can't even imagine the cell phone conversation I my kids. I'll just tell you right now, here's where I'd be. They would hate us. They would have a flip phone with those heavy batteries so big it wouldn't fit in their pocket. Like, no internet, you know, like, because there's so much research on, like, how it's, like, affecting people's ability to focus. So, like, this interview, to me, was so amazing, and we are buying all of her books for, sorry, Meredith and Kyle, you're getting them all.


Brad Crowell 2:39  

True, yeah, but actually, we had a chance to meet Gail in real life last year when we were in England, and it was so interesting. I was just chatting with her on the side of class, and the conversation was so like, she was so inspiring in the five minutes that we were talking that I was like, holy cow, you need to be a guest on Lesley's pod.


Lesley Logan 3:02  

Gail, I don't know if you believe in past life, but in a past life, I feel like we were family.


Brad Crowell 3:07  

Yeah, seriously. Well, I'm really, really glad that we were able to have Gail on, and I love that the very first thing that she said is, I don't think I fit the Be It mold, you know, and you two agreed that this would be inspiring the parents, for the kids, so that the kids can be it. 


Lesley Logan 3:25  

I well, that's just it. I mean being it till you see it. 


Brad Crowell 3:28  

I disagree with her in that she did break the Be It mold, but you know, I love the conversation. 


Lesley Logan 3:33  

You don't think she broke them all? 


Brad Crowell 3:34  

No, I think she was being it till she saw it all day, every day. You know like she was very innovative in her career. Fifty years as a teacher, y'all.


Lesley Logan 3:42  

Especially as she was talking about how she, like, got into what she's doing, it's a be it till you see it kind of a story. So Gail, so sorry you didn't. But also sorry, honey, didn't hate to break it to you. But also, I can't just have people who just tell me stories about themselves all day. We are four and a half. I would have five, almost five years in on this pod. Like crazy. I want to be entertained as well. I want to learn something, and sometimes it's bringing in experts who help us get to where we're going. You can't just be inspired all the time. You have to have information that you can integrate. So I really felt like that's what she did. But anyways, before we keep going and just complimenting Gail Hugman. 


Lesley Logan 4:19  

Today is March 26th 2026 and it's wear a hat day. 


Brad Crowell 4:24  

Wear a Hat Day. 


Lesley Logan 4:26  

We celebrate Wear a Hat Day on March 26th is a fun and fabulous way to raise awareness for brain tumor research and raise funds while we're at it. The holiday was created as a way to get our heads and our hats together to advance research and find a cure for brain tumor so you don't need to have it affected to make a difference. We've got some ideas to get you ahead to this wear hat day. Do they? Did they give us any ideas? 


Brad Crowell 4:49  

No. 


Lesley Logan 4:49  

They didn't give us anything. No links. There's not a charity on this not further down. Okay, before we just start talking about a charity we have not researched, I highly recommend you Google in your area what local charities are doing with brain tumor research or state charities that are doing it because.


Brad Crowell 5:08  

Hold on, I'm going to read you more. Occurring in around 250,000 people global each year, we're still a long way to go in the study of brain tumors, but thankfully, due to science advances, scientific advances in the fields of chemotherapy and radiation, the survival rate is higher than ever before. Once, brain tumors meant the end of the unfortunate individuals who were who developed them. It wasn't until 1879 that a Scottish surgeon became the first person to successfully remove a brain tumor. His patient, young woman, fully recovered, and the tie was turned in the fight against the illness. So Wear a Hat Day is about brain tumors.


Lesley Logan 5:42  

You just said 1879. 


Brad Crowell 5:45  

1879 


Lesley Logan 5:46  

Was there, so and also, you're not under anesthesia for brain tumors. You are awake. 


Brad Crowell 5:50  

Could you imagine? 


Lesley Logan 5:51  

Home girl was like, I'm gonna die. So you may as well open up my head. I trust you. They didn't even have I was but did we have pasteurization yet? Like, Oh my god. Like. 


Brad Crowell 6:02  

I have no idea. 


Lesley Logan 6:02  

Oh my god, definitely don't like brain tumors, but I am a little brave ass woman. Way to fucking go.


Brad Crowell 6:08  

So the scientific process that was developed though the following years meant a speedy advancement for understanding and treatment of the condition. The discovery of X rays meant that it became possible to locate tumors in the brain accurately through scanning, probably, instead of just cutting their head open, this has continued to be the best way to identify brain tumors ever since, and in the 70s, the development of computed tomography, or CT scanning, allowed physicians to see a clear image of the brain for the very first time. So it's only been 50 years that we've been able to actually see a vision like a full scan of the brain. But however, despite these significant advances in the last 150 years, there still is no fail safe cure for brain tumors. As a result, we get together on Wear a Hat Day to raise money and awareness for brain tumor research. Typically used as a form of protection from external elements. Hats are worn as a symbol of internal protection on this day as well. By talking more about this condition, we help each other to spot symptoms early on. By raising funds, we help support a scientist who are working on a cure.


Lesley Logan 7:11  

So we don't have any they didn't give us any charity just so, so go look one up. Okay, so go look one up. Here's the deal. There's someone in your life who has one. I have. My grandmother died of a brain tumor. 


Brad Crowell 7:21  

She did. 


Lesley Logan 7:22  

It's not genetic, so don't freak out when you hear that I have another family with a brain tumor. 


Brad Crowell 7:25  

My grandmother almost died of a brain tumor. They were able to successfully remove it. And literally, it was as if she got 10 years younger during her recovery. It's crazy. 


Lesley Logan 7:35  

Oh, my God. Oh, it was amazing. But my grandmother had one, and it was quite fast by the time we knew about it. And then my cousin, he's actually had brain tumors for almost 20 years. Maybe, I think we're at 20 years. They've done because of experiments and charities and and people raising money for research. He's actually been able to benefit from these experimental surgeries and and like ways of treating it, to shrink them. And so I just want to say, like, if you are looking for a cause, and this touches you because you know someone, you've heard about it, this is if we all have a cause. Just imagine, like, how many people get helped? So I think there's a lot of pressure on picking, like, I've helped everybody. No, you can just help one. But in any way there's, it touches all of us, and it's there's not always a rhyme or reason. So anyways, that's why we're wearing hats right now. 


Brad Crowell 8:22  

That is why we're wearing hats right now. 


Lesley Logan 8:23  

If you're watching on YouTube, if you're listening, we're wearing hats right now. Okay, Brad is wearing a podcast hat. 


Brad Crowell 8:29  

I am. 


Lesley Logan 8:30  

Last week we were in Poland, and I forgot that the 26th also we're, we'll be in Bruges. Oh, my God, it's gonna be so much fun. And, then. 


Brad Crowell 8:39  

Yeah, we're probably in Amsterdam right now. That would be my guess. So maybe we're pulling into Bruges early. A night early. Yeah, possibly. 


Lesley Logan 8:47  

It's gonna be so much fun with Karen Frischmann. It's a great time. And then we'll actually spend the after Bruges is over. We're actually about nine days in France. Then we're gonna pop on the train to London and you can check out and see if there's any tickets left at xxll.co/potlondon, super excited about that. I know that their Fridays and Saturdays are sold out, but there's some spots on Sunday, it's really worth going to. And by the way, we said in the last weekend, not sure we'll be back to Europe, guys, just got other places we got to see, too. Spring Training is a thing that anyone can join, and you'll be on plane two. You can actually join yeah, May. 


Brad Crowell 9:22  

So after POT London. 


Lesley Logan 9:24  

May 12th through the 17th, you can join from the comfort of your own Pilates space, wherever that is, all levels are welcome. Yes, the theme is about getting overhead. But we actually have people who will teachers on our team who do not do overhead exercises. We have a teacher on our team who are going to show you how, if you have, if you're in a larger body, booty abundance, chest abundance, like best ways to get overhead. And then we'll have hyper mobile teachers showing how you get overhead. And then we'll just be getting overhead, and you will have the tools you need to do the best thing for you. And that's the goal of spring training. So opc.me/events.


Brad Crowell 9:58  

Yeah, come join us. Before we get into it, though, with Gail, we had a question, so this is a bit of a long one. So bear with me here. Kendra @KennySwan on Instagram asks, Hey, Lesley, I watched your YouTube video on teaching contemporary on classical equipment. I'm a stat instructor. I've loved classical equipment, especially the Reformer. I would love to have classical equipment in my studio, but I've had some backlash from classical instructors that I'm quote, unquote not qualified to teach on classical equipment, so fuck the Pilates Blaze is what I would say. I don't think that's so crazy, though, sorry, I don't think that's so crazy though, any well trained instructor should be able to adjust for the equipment that they're using. I know there's some exercises that can't be done, not that many, really, though, right, like between the classical and contemporary. My question is, in your expert opinion, is it acceptable for a contemporary teacher to teach on classical equipment?


Lesley Logan 10:51  

Oh, my God, I. 


Brad Crowell 10:52  

What the fuck. 


Lesley Logan 10:53  

The fuck. First of all, just so you know, I hired many a contemporary trained teacher when I worked for Equinox. And guess what the equipment is? Classical. If you had to be able to manage it, don't, don't break it, but. 


Brad Crowell 11:06  

I am so sad that that you've had classical instructors giving you a hard time, for even wanting to buy the equipment, they can just take a long fucking walk. That is so ridiculous.


Lesley Logan 11:17  

I know if you're a classical instructor who like, is like, can't believe this is how I'm answering. I we have to have a talk about the cult that you're in. I'm just gonna say it right now. I know that's not how you're supposed to help people out of a cult, but like, I teach on contemporary equipment all the time. Like, that's what I teach. I'm on a Pop Up Tour. You know what my classical instructor told me in my first training? She said, You need to make sure that you take the time to understand how to work on any piece of equipment you're at, because when you teach classically on different pieces of equipment, it will change the exercise. But you can't be limited to the equipment the studio has. So if you want to be a great instructor, you got to figure it out. And so every studio I ever went to, I would get on the equipment, I would make sure, I would figure what springs felt the same way. How do I set the ropes up so they feel the same way? I am so proud that I know how to do that, and no contemporary instructor says, Oh, she can't come in here. She doesn't know how to use these risers. She only uses the ropes on the bottom level. No one says that to me. So how dare these classical people say that? It grosses me out. So, just so, you know, anyone can buy equipment, just so we're clear, you don't have to be a trained person. Do I wish that people who call themselves teachers went through proper trainings? Fuck yeah, I do. I wish there was some sort of regulation making sure that, because there's a lot of people calling things polite that are not polite, like that's kind of where that comes from, that does not come from this. You're a trained person on how to teach. So here's the deal, Kendra, you've done the thing how to learn how to teach Pilates, right? Your first training taught you how to teach. Plus, it doesn't actually matter to me what it is. You can buy classical equipment. You can absolutely teach what you can translate over on the classical equipment. I don't think that's wrong. Sometimes you might need those tools in your tool belt for a client. And then you can, through my YouTube videos, through a lot of people's YouTube videos, teach yourself classical I do think you should read classical educated books. Not all of them are good. So here's a couple. We have a YouTube video that I'll go into, deeper books that I like about Pilates, and they're all, so the Caged Lion John Steel, Contrology Handbook by Sandy Shimoda, Get to Know Joe Pilates with Cathy Strack, incredible books that you should read that will help educate you about the why behind classical. Because I, what I don't like is when people just like watch a classical video, teach it in the order, but not really understand the why behind the what. Because that's why you want to change some things. So I do think if I was to teach contemporary I'd want to know the why behind the what, right. So I think that. But do I.


Brad Crowell 13:42  

That YouTube video, by the way, is called, What are the Best Pilates Books from Lesley Logan on Online Pilates Classes?


Lesley Logan 13:49  

So I I'm sorry, like anyone telling I don't care what school you're at. 


Brad Crowell 13:54  

I don't think, I don't think those classical teachers are qualified to teach on classical equipment. That's what I have to say.


Lesley Logan 14:00  

I mean, like these, I bet you can, I bet you, Kendra, if you ask those people if I'm a classical teacher, those same people would say no, because the only people who talk like that are people who think, because who train me that I'm not classical. So, like, there's this weird group of people. So what you just met is you just saw big red flag run away from these people. These are not my people. So in the Pilates world, everyone's got to find their people, and I might not be the people for you. What I do have to offer if you want to invest in like an actual I would call, this is where, for teachers, I would call, you're looking for a bridge or a mentorship. If you've already done a comprehensive training, I think it's a little weird to go do a comprehensive training in the other style, where you're with people who've never taught before. Because one, they're going to be like, oh my God, this person is like, knows what they're doing, and you're going to be like, these, I'm coaching these people more than I'm getting helped. I like a mentorship program where it's, it is people who've all been taught but now you want to dive deeper into a study of Pilates. I have one. It's called eLevate. It's more than half fill for next year. It's lesleylogan.co/elevate, but you don't have to pick mine. There are other ones out there. Karen Frischmann is a dear friend of mine who has one she has hers like 18 months you just you're looking for a classical Pilates mentorship but you don't even need to do that to go buy the classical equipment and start doing classical work. You can have an OPC membership and learn a bunch of stuff. Everyone's following the order. Everyone's doing things based on Joe's intentions and using variations as needed. So you're good, Kendra, in my book, you're good. Those people can suck it. You know, in the words of pumps from my favorite podcast, they can fuck off.


Brad Crowell 15:41  

Well, if you have a question, just text us at 310-905-5534, or if you're international, feel free to submit a question at beitpod.com/questions, and also leave us a win.


Lesley Logan 15:54  

If you want me to get angry for you clearly, I will.


Brad Crowell 15:58  

Yeah. You want Lesley to tell someone to fuck off. 


Brad Crowell 16:00  

All right, stick around. We'll be right back. We'll get a dig into this conversation.


Lesley Logan 16:05  

Hold on. 


Brad Crowell 16:05  

All right. What? 


Lesley Logan 16:06  

That co host, also, I've said it on the podcast before, but she did it again today, when I was listening twice, she says, in 2000 and 2026.


Brad Crowell 16:17  

2000 and 2026 yeah, that's so funny.


Lesley Logan 16:20  

I die every time. Like, she is making it worse. I like, love it. I'm like, what if that's how he said it? Oh, it's January, 2000 and 2026. Okay, now we're on a break. 


Brad Crowell 16:31  

All right, we'll be right back.


Brad Crowell 16:33  

Okay, welcome back. Let's talk about Gail Hugman. Gail has been teaching for over 50 years, y'all, 50 years she's been teaching. She works with children and parents to help them flourish together. After spending decades in London schools, she shifted it into private practice to focus on motivation and self-development, helping children build self-control, confidence and independence, and helping parents rethink how they guide and support their crazy kids.


Lesley Logan 17:06  

Well, I mean, I just really am obsessed with this because, like, I remember listening to Seth Godin say that, like, parents roles after kids are home from school is not to help them, like, really do homework. It's to help them learn how to be analytical. Because if they could be analytical, then they can probably, this is before, AI guys, this is like, I don't know, I think there's like, 2015 when I heard him say this, he says, then they're they're irreplaceable, right? Like, if they can be analytical, and then I remember who's the host of Survivor? Jeff? Is it Jeff? Feels like a Jeff. Anyways, he he. 


Brad Crowell 17:45  

Jeff Probst. 


Lesley Logan 17:45  

Yes, him. He was talking about raising kids, and he said, you know, my daughter was talking about how she wants to be a large animal vet and she wants to be a tennis photographer, pro tennis photographer. 


Brad Crowell 17:58  

These things go hand in hand. 


Lesley Logan 18:00  

Correct. Exactly. That's exactly what his thought is. But you can't react, because then you can, like, affect them. So he just so his job is not to be like, oh, you can't do you have to pick one. That's what the world would do. He said, my job as her parent is to challenge her to tell me how she's gonna do that. So I said, Oh, that's interesting. How are you going to learn both those skills and do that? Do you think? What do you think? And she goes, oh, there's these two schools here that have really high performing tennis teams, photography as a degree and large animal vet. And so I can actually go to this school on a scholarship and get these two degrees, and then, because tennis is seasonal, I'll be a seasonal photographer when I'm not in seasonal work at this place over here in the large animal vet thing, like, she had it all figured out. 


Brad Crowell 18:48  

Holy cow. 


Lesley Logan 18:48  

So had he said, You have to pick one. 


Brad Crowell 18:51  

Right. 


Lesley Logan 18:52  

It would have just killed the re she did research. She figured out a plan. And look, whether or not I haven't looked, and see what Jeff Probst's daughter is doing. Because, like, you know, there's enough time that she might be able to figure this out, but that's not the job, right? And so that goes into what Gail's talking about here that I love. She said, I mean, you'll see how it fits in. When we talk about listening to children, we don't talk about the process. I will say, are you listening? And what they're thinking is, I'm hearing you. So, like, I've even done this. Like, are you listening? I'm like, I heard words. 


Brad Crowell 19:21  

Right. Yeah, totally listening. Didn't process any single bit of it but. 


Lesley Logan 19:26  

Anything. She said that, you know, even as adults, we are taught listening skills like, we're like, we'll go to events, schools, trainings, and they'll like, teach you how to like, process the thing that you're about to do. But we just expect children to know how to listen and like, what to pay attention to? Remember in Schitt's Creek when, like, Alexis, like, went back to school and then she highlighted the whole page. And they're like, Oh, you didn't highlight this. She's like, Oh, okay, like she was highlighting, like, what she was reading, like she wasn't taught, like, when do you put the highlighter on the page? Like, what's the point of highlighting? Right? And so it's funny, but like, it goes to this. And, like, I think this is where, like, as people with younger people in our lives, we don't have children, we're, like, when our nieces and nephews are around us, I'm trying to be really conscious of, like, Am I answering the question for them, or I'm giving them? Am I? Am I giving them ample time to, kind of like, process what what's happening and then tell me back what's going on. And that does take time. I just want to know. I just want to know I understand that takes so much time. I just wanted to tell them what to do. But I think you might have people who listen when they're older.


Brad Crowell 20:32  

Well, I found it interesting that she was talking about the process, because for me, I found she started talking about process in the same way that I've always talked about the why, you know, and when, like, I don't have children, but we run a company with people in it, and I've always found that when, especially when there's something that someone does not want to do, if I'm able to clearly convey why it always goes over better with them still grudgingly doing the thing, than if I'm just, like, just because I fucking said so do it? No, that doesn't work, right? I mean, they, you know, they might still do it and they might also quit, but, but like when people understand the why behind the what, now all of a sudden they're like, Oh, that makes sense. I get it. Okay, yeah.


Lesley Logan 21:27  

I completely agree. I think. Like, sometimes even just when we tell people like, oh, you know, like, it's really simple, you have too many clients, we need to raise your rates, and they're like, so scared, and it's like, okay, hold on. Let me paint the picture of why this is, how this is going to help? Like, I do think that you're right there. And I remember when you were training with Adrian Kohler, who's been on the pod, and you were frustrated, just even within a with one of the people who's not on our team anymore, but we'd hired for a specific project, and you were frustrated. And he taught you to even ask, like, Okay, after you tell them what you want them to do, ask them what it is that they're going, what are their action steps going to be? Because that helps you understand. Did they hear or listen? Did they process it? Did they hear what you said to do? You know, like, it's really easy for us to, like, say the right words, and then they interpret it incorrectly, just based on, like, It's the game of telephone, like, where people are, what words stuck out to them? What words triggered them?


Brad Crowell 22:22  

Yeah, Adrian was episode 262, by the way. 


Lesley Logan 22:25  

That far back? 


Brad Crowell 22:26  

I know.


Lesley Logan 22:28  

Did the year did like there was like two was there one year that was like two years long.


Brad Crowell 22:32  

But I agree, you know, like when we are willing to explain the process that suddenly really can be the catalyst that shifts behavior in a child, you know, or in a teammate. 


Lesley Logan 22:45  

I'm just gonna say I don't think that I'm in a rebel at heart. That's not how I think I was born as a child, like I'm quite the perfectionist, overachiever. But anytime I heard because I said so, or because I told you to, I can go back to, like, 17 memories in my brain of me in my head, going. 


Brad Crowell 23:06  

Yeah, exactly. 


Lesley Logan 23:08  

And then doing enough to not get yelled at for doing not doing it the right way. Like, like you, you catch more flies with honey, but you also create people who you want to be around, if you kind of give them the chance to be in the process, learn the process.


Brad Crowell 23:24  

Yeah, and that, that actually feeds exactly into what I wanted to talk about, which was she told the story about this four year old who, when she was like, when Gail was putting the pencils away, the four year old was like, me, I want to do it. I want to I want to do it right. And she said something really intriguing. She said, kids want responsibility. They are intuitively born to grow. They are born to develop. They want more. They want to be part of the pack, a society. They see what adults are doing, and they're like, Well, I want to do that too. You know, how many of us remember thinking back to when we were a child and being like, I can't wait till I'm an adult. Why? Because I can make my own decisions, or I can do my own thing, or whatever the thing was, you know, and, and so, so, so interestingly, you know, actually, one thing that I found really interesting about Gail that was not explicitly said, is, obviously she is a patient person. Patience, right? And she's willing. She understands the she understands the kid. She understands what they're doing, why they're doing it, and she also understands when they're processing or not processing, the the information that they're receiving. She told another story about asking someone nine times to repeat back to her what she just told them to do right nine times. That takes so much patience to not get frustrated.


Lesley Logan 24:47  

I think that goes back to it doesn't matter what the goal is. If you're really clear on the goal, it allows you to to have I don't have patience inherently.


Brad Crowell 25:00  

For her, the goal was not for the kid to go do the thing she asked him to do. The goal was for the kid to learn how to listen and process what she what they were listening.


Lesley Logan 25:10  

But I wanted to say because we, I know we have some Pilates instructors who are listening, and they, they get frustrated when their clients don't remember the names of the exercises, or they're how to do things. And I'm a person who believes in like, radical responsibility. My clients are going to learn their exercises, and they're capable of it. I work out at gyms at a hotel. These are people on vacation who manage to come into a gym and figure out how to do something in there, which means they someone taught it and they figured how to do it. So I am willing to be patient enough to not over correct someone, or to do it for them instead, to go, okay, the 100 and like, you know, this one, it's, it's this. And like, Oh, it's this, okay, like, giving them the the time, the space. And everyone's like, like, I don't have my job is to entertain them. It's to help them know how to move their own body. And so it's really funny, because I have these clients who told my dad year, this is back when I was first teaching she is the most patient woman. And my dad was like, my daughter is patient, and I will say, loves, I am not patient. I am one of the most impatient people when it comes to the things I want, how I want things to go, but when it comes to someone else's process, I am very patient, because I know the end result is they'll have radical responsibility, autonomy over their body. They'll understand how to move it. I'm not going to be there when they trip or have to catch or grab something. I might be like, oh, right, arm up reach. I won't be there. So I think that I have no idea. I think actually, I haven't met Kate Gayle and been spent some time with her, there is a lot of patience to her. But also, maybe not, maybe she's just really clear on when I'm with this child, the goal is to give them time to process.


Brad Crowell 26:57  

Yeah, and for her, it sounds like like listening to her stories, you know, she is intentional about giving people the tools, like you were just talking about the tools to develop as a child, to grow into the adult that joins the the pack, right, the society, right? And if you when you are empowering them with the tools, then they can make decisions that are logical and all those kinds of things, instead of just be like, I guess, like, like, think about it. If you're just, like, do it. Why? Because I said, So, what are you doing? You're actually, you're actually molding a human to always be told what to do. 


Lesley Logan 27:38  

Right. And guess what? They won't need those people in the future, because that's what robots will do. They could be programmed. People are not people will be rebellious. And I, I know y'all have heard me say this, I'm a little worried about who the fuck is going to take care of me, because their mom won't be around to tell them what to do, and I might need someone to take care of me because I didn't have children. So just saying.


Brad Crowell 27:59  

Well, well on that note, stick around. 


Lesley Logan 28:03  

In case you need a motivation to make your child not an asshole, Lesley, your podcast host, is a little worried about her, like, end of life care, okay?


Brad Crowell 28:14  

All right, we'll be right back. We're gonna take it to those Be It Action Items that we had with Gail. So stick around. 


Brad Crowell 28:21  

Welcome back. All right. So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Gail Hugman? She said straight up, you cannot control children. You cannot control them. You have to teach them how to control themselves.


Lesley Logan 28:40  

I I have chills, and I love this so much, I feel like that has to be very freeing, doesn't you think it's freeing?


Brad Crowell 28:47  

Oh my gosh, so freeing. Like I freeing is a good word for it, but, but I, but I also think that it's, I guess freeing is the right word, because when people are feel like they have they will lose control. And what does it do for you as the person trying to have control? You get angry, freaked out, like, like.


Lesley Logan 29:06  

You're embarrassed. Yeah, all these things, so embarrassed, this, this, this child is like, like, doing the they're normally really good, like, all the things. 


Brad Crowell 29:14  

Which are forms of narcissism, by the way. But basically it's, it's what you are when you're teaching them to control themselves, you know now it's not your responsibility if they control themselves in that way. You've taught them how to do the thing, and if they're not doing it, then that's some there's another. There's another thing going on there, because they know how to control themselves.


Lesley Logan 29:35  

Oh my gosh, you guys, if you did not listen to the episode, you have to listen to it, because it was very there was a whole point about the homework, the homework that made me like, I just was like, Oh, my God, I wish. I wish this was something my parents knew. I wish. I think my mom, who's a school teacher, would love this like my mom, I know would, because she, like, she took the homework away from kids because the parents were doing it. But like, this whole thing about, like, if the kid doesn't do the homework, at the time the teacher said it should take then instead of doing it for them or fighting with them, you take it away. The homework is done. It was supposed to take 30 minutes. It it's been 30 minutes, and I will go to school with you tomorrow, while you explain why it you couldn't get it done 30 minutes. Because then they have to have they have to actually think about why did it, oh, I was playing a video game. Well, now they have to admit that, or Oh, I didn't understand the lesson. Okay, well, then the teacher needs to know, because the teacher should make sure you can understand the lesson before you leave.


Brad Crowell 30:27  

Because they're teaching you how to do the lesson, not doing the lesson for you, like it's this is a perfect parallel. The teacher would never do your homework for you. The teacher is going to do teach you how to do the homework. So why do we feel like we are supposed to control children. No, we're supposed to teach them how to control themselves. 


Lesley Logan 30:44  

Right. For example, I tell eLevate members, like the homework for eLevate is not mandatory. If you do it it helps me understand the learning style you are. It also helps me understand what you understood from the weekend I just taught you, which gives me feedback that I could never get from a survey, in understanding that I know what I said that weekend, but what did you hear? Right? Like, what did you take in? What did you understand? And this past homework thing, someone filled the form in a way that I've never seen before. And I was just like, hey, I think that, like, you might have misunderstood what's going on. Here's what I was expecting. She redid it, and then she explained why she understood the way she did. Crazy reason why. But it was like, you know, it was really simple for us to just do an example, and then people would know how to do it, and then, so, like, it also the teacher will learn I wasn't good. I didn't give good enough instruction. So I just, I love that. Go listen. The whole thing is so good. But it goes back to what you were saying. 


Brad Crowell 31:37  

Yeah. And the two of you then got into a conversation about saying, you know, don't do this, or no, or all those kinds of things. And I'm not saying that you should never say no, but your example was that Joe Pilates wouldn't tell you what not to do. He would tell you what to do, right? So how should you control yourself in public? Not control yourself.


Lesley Logan 31:59  

Well also, like we just watched Crazy Stupid Love, because I love that movie so much. And Joe would also choose exercises that you needed to teach you teach your body what it was not capable of doing yet. And in Crazy, Stupid Love, Ryan Gosling, like Miyagi's, you know, Steve Carell, and I think that, like, that's all, like, the modeling of it is, like, you know, is really important. So there's so much, yeah, go listen to it.


Brad Crowell 32:27  

So she concluded this thought by saying, so instead of me trying to control them, the kids, I'll tell them the consequences of what they're doing. And this was also really interesting to me, she said, she said, look, talking to a child, if you continue to do this, I will get upset. Is it okay if I get upset? Because that is what is going to happen. And so the kid now has the choice to continue down this path, which they now know what it will bring or not, right? And she often, she said often, they'd be like, No, I don't want you to get upset. Okay, great, then please stop doing this thing, right? Fascinating. Again, patience. 


Lesley Logan 33:11  

Like, it's like, I think of like, parents are like, don't eat that. You'll ruin your dinner. The kid doesn't care if the dinner is ruined, you know, like, they don't care. They want the thing. So, like, you have to come up with, like, Okay, if you eat that, it's gonna really make me sad, because I spent hours on making this dinner for you. That's maybe manipulation. Sorry, Gail, but like, I want to have dinner with you. It's important that I have quality time with you. I want you to enjoy the dinner that I made. Like, if you eat that, and then is it okay if I'm disappointed that you didn't enjoy the dinner I made. Okay, like there's, I'm sure Gail's books are going to be more articulate than I am. So go get them all.


Brad Crowell 33:46  

Well, that said, what about you? What Be It Action Items did you love from your convo?


Lesley Logan 33:50  

How to choose? Okay, when we are born, that's what Gail says. When we're born, we have something called executive function skills. Gail said we need, we all need these skills for learning and for living, but in school and often at home, we expect children to have them instead of teaching them. So for Gai.,


Brad Crowell 34:06  

So that we expect the kids to have the executive function skills instead of teaching them executive function skills.


Lesley Logan 34:11  

Yeah, so she said. Gail said, the first one we have to teach is self-control, then the next one is focus and attention and then organization. So if parents would focus on teaching these skills, children would do better. And I think, I know that sounds it's easy, clearly, in order, yeah, it's, it's first control, then you can teach focus, and then you can teach organization. And I think, like, what's so cool about that? It's one it gives you, it gives you a map, start with self-control, and then focus and attention, but and then organization. But I think it's instead of like, I gotta teach them how to like do their homework. It's like, you got to teach them self-control so that they can sit down to do the homework. Then you can teach them focus and attention so they can do the homework. And then organization so they know what time to do the homework. When can they figure this what is the best time for them? How do they manage their day? These are important things. I I am really sad for people who like, don't know how to like, put their schedule together. That's sad, you know, because it's clearly frustrating them. We have adults that we work with who, like, have a really hard time figuring out how to organize the things that they're doing or learning, and it's like, oh, they just weren't taught. And to learn that an older age is, like, really difficult.


Brad Crowell 35:33  

So anyways, yeah, well, just a lovely again, a lovely conversation, and I'm so excited that we were able to have Gail join the pod.


Lesley Logan 35:42  

If you did all this when you were a parent, I hope you pat yourself on the fucking back like, I hope you go this was the best episode for helping me celebrate how amazing I was as a parent, because I do think that most parents do not give themselves enough credit either. So I'm not here to, like, harp on like you're doing a bad job, but like. 


Brad Crowell 36:00  

It did make me wonder if my parents had a method to the madness. Like, you know, they're pretty analytical. Maybe they were intentional about some of this stuff, but if they did, I'd never had a conversation with them about it as an adult. But, you know, it's intriguing. It's interesting.


Lesley Logan 36:14  

I mean, they might have because they're analytical. I think, like, there is something a little different about those of us who are raised to, like, go outside and play till the lights turn off. And there's definitely something about, like, there's that real people like, why are you guys drinking from hoses? Like, it's like, because that's we were had to play outside. What are you talking about? Of course, we drink from a hose, you know, like, like, but I like the fact that people don't realize that like, I think that there was something about the plane outside that definitely created a lot of this executive function, because, like, you have to negotiate with other children, of like, who's in charge, who's playing now it's my turn, like,


Brad Crowell 36:49  

Danger crossing roads by yourself. 


Lesley Logan 36:52  

Yeah, I do I do think that there's a difference now than there was in like, oh, my God. We're 43 so, you know, like, I do, I do see a difference. And I just what I what I really wanted is for people who have younger children, wanting to empower you about what to stress about and what not to stress about. Like, Gail said it you shouldn't stress it if the homework gets done, like, that's not a thing, like, this is where they're gonna okay, let's go figure out why it didn't get done. Let's help you figure that out. And then if you did this, then pat yourself on the back. And if you didn't. 


Brad Crowell 37:24  

We still love you. 


Lesley Logan 37:24  

We love you, and they're taking care of you and not me. So. I'm kidding. I'm Lesley Logan. I love you guys so much. I'm Lesley. Go buy her books. Gail Hugman has a ton of books. 


Brad Crowell 37:39  

Yeah. She had a couple of websites. We're gonna put those in to the show notes, because I can't remember off the top of my head, but actually, I'm just gonna look Gail Hugman her oh yeah, lessonalive.com, lessonalive.com, she's also on Instagram.


Lesley Logan 37:54  

(inaudible) how she did this stuff are enjoyable to listen to. She also has an accent, so my American friends, I know you'll love it.


Brad Crowell 38:00  

Yeah. And you can find her books at the endlessbookcase.com. 


Lesley Logan 38:02  

Oh, perfect. 


Brad Crowell 38:04  

Yeah, but I'm sure, I'm sure they're also on her lessonalive.


Lesley Logan 38:06  

So we're gonna order, to the Crowells. You are getting some books. We love you so much. All right, I'm Lesley Logan. 


Brad Crowell 38:14  

And I'm Brad Crowell. 


Lesley Logan 38:15  

Thank you so much for listening. Share this with a friend who needs to hear it. Share with a friend who's struggling with their kids right now. Hopefully this helps them and Gail, thanks for being here. You didn't break the mold. Sorry, babe, but you're still a badass in our eyes. Have an amazing day.


Brad Crowell 38:28  

Bye for now. 


Lesley Logan 38:30  

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.


Brad Crowell 39:12  

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.


Lesley Logan 39:17  

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.


Brad Crowell 39:22  

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.


Lesley Logan 39:29  

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.


Brad Crowell 39:32  

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.



Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy