440. Choosing Progress for a Better Future

00:00

37:16

In this episode, Lesley and Brad recapped their conversation with Tia Levings, the New York Times bestselling author of A Well-Trained Wife. They explored Tia’s experiences escaping religious fundamentalism, the challenges of reclaiming her identity, and her commitment to raising awareness about Christian Nationalism’s impact. Tune in for a powerful conversation about perseverance, healing, voting rights, and moving forward.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co .

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

Tia’s story of breaking free from religious fundamentalism and reclaiming her identity.

The dangers of coercive control within certain religious communities.

Insights into the struggle and process of escaping controlling ideologies.

The importance of protecting individual rights and supporting policies of progress.

How intentional change and envisioning a new future play a role in healing.

Practical advice on how to vote mindfully and choose candidates based on core values.

Episode References/Links:

Cambodia February 2025 Retreat - https://crowsnestretreats.com

Flashcards Waitlist - opc.me/flashcardwaitlist

Pilates Studio Growth Accelerator - https://prfit.biz/accelerator

OPC Winter Tour - https://opc.me/tour

Tia Levings Website - https://tialevings.com

Tia Levings Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tialevingswriter

A Well-Trained Wife! Pre-order Link - https://beitpod.com/preorderbook

Religious Trauma Resources - https://beitpod.com/resources

Books For Treats - https://booksfortreats.org/

Little Readers Big Change - https://www.littlereadersbigchange.com/

Rising Strong by Brene Brown - https://a.co/d/gE7Hm45

Vote Save America - https://votesaveamerica.com/

Project 2025 - https://www.project2025.org/

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.

DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS!

Check out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper’s Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox

Be in the know with all the workshops at OPC

Be It Till You See It Podcast Survey

Be a part of Lesley’s Pilates Mentorship

FREE Ditching Busy Webinar

https://

Resources:

Follow Us on Social Media:

Episode Transcript:

Lesley Logan 0:00

So she was not going to let them get her present or her future, because that was the only thing she had control over. And I find that so cool.

Lesley Logan 0:10

Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.

Lesley Logan 0:52

Welcome back to the be it till you see it. Interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the revelatory convo I have with Tia Levings in our last episode. If you haven't listened to that one, you have missed the fuck out. It's so good. I clearly can be. It's pretty clear and you can tell when I loved an episode. I love this guest so fucking much. I don't want to scare her off, because I want to be her best friend, but in a non-culty way, Tia. But you should listen to it. And you can listen this one first and then listen that one. But it's really great. We do get into politics and you want to know what? I don't care. If you're mad at me for talking about how to save your right to be a human in this country, then I have no apologies, because it is near and dear to my heart that we protect people's rights. I have been to countries where you do not have rights and you have no idea what that looks like and how scary that is. And so, no.

Brad Crowell 1:45

Yeah, no, it's been pretty crazy. So yeah, we are going to get into that a little bit. But before we do.

Lesley Logan 1:50

We're not telling you how to vote, by the way. We're just telling you the facts that are laid out before you. But Brad's smirking. You're not going to say, you're not going to, you're not going to say anything?

Brad Crowell 1:58

No, we're gonna get into it later. So.

Lesley Logan 2:00

All right, well, first, it is, today is October 31st 2024, it is Halloween. You are probably familiar with it, but there are some interesting history behind I'm sure there's some really good history.

Brad Crowell 2:11

Pagan and then Catholics were like, we hate pagan. So we're gonna make a (inaudible)

Lesley Logan 2:16

Like, how did we get her recap on Halloween? It's a (inaudible) culture and anyways, anyways, I swear, I swear to you, when I was like, team, I want this out before the election. This was the only day. But we thought we'd share something actually really cool for you, and hope this doesn't get you teepeed or is that what you call it when they throw toilet paper on your house?

Brad Crowell 2:36

Yeah, that's what they call. That's what they say.

Lesley Logan 2:39

That's what they call. I'm sure they call it something else now. I'm sure it's called like, skippity or something. We thought we'd share about a really fun alternative to giving candy to kids called books for treats. So today is Books For Treats Day. Books For Treats Day was born from the belief that books are more valuable treat than candy on Halloween. Books are more beneficial to children than candies because they nourish the mind and equip the child to understand life better. Some naysayers tell Rebecca that she is stealing the fun of Halloween and ruining kids' Halloween. Rebecca clearly created.

Brad Crowell 3:06

She created this day. I forgot to say that part.

Lesley Logan 3:08

Yeah. We're gonna get to her in a second. In fact, the contrary is true. Kids love books. Since they get to choose their book from the age appropriate box, they're excited to have a treat that lasts more than a few seconds. I commonly hear we made sure to come to the book lady's house. Rebecca Morgan is the author of 25 books, two of which have sold over 200,000 each. She's appeared on Oprah, 60 Minutes, NPR, USA Today and international media. She's a speaker and management consultant and runs three businesses and this nonprofit. Learn more about Books For Treats at booksfortreats.org. We should just have her on the show. And also, I forget, but it's, sometime in this month, it might have been last Friday, we're recording this in the past for the future, but it is like National Reading Day or something like that. And we were going, we actually, from a different Rebecca as a guest, started donating to the Little Readers Big Change organization to help get books into K through 12 schools that have low funding. And so I'm all about this. If you get teepeed, I'm sorry. But also, like, put some (inaudible).

Brad Crowell 4:09

I mean, you will, you'll get teepeed by, like, the 13-year-olds who are like, ew books.

Lesley Logan 4:14

But you want to know something? You might, oh, my God, that you might live in a state where some of those books have been not accessible at their school and you could be that book lady. We're going to that book lady's house. We'll get the other books. Anyways, we just got back from Cambodia retreat.

Brad Crowell 4:28

We did. We just spent 10 days in Cambodia with the largest group we've ever taken. It was amazing.

Lesley Logan 4:34

The retreats only, like six days, guys. We just were there for.

Brad Crowell 4:37

Yeah, we get there early so that we could prep everything and make sure everything is going to go smoothly. And then after that, we took a little breather. We actually went to Thailand. And we explored parts of Thailand that we'd never been to.

Lesley Logan 4:48

We went to Northern, I know it sounds like, oh, a beach. And I was like, opposite.

Brad Crowell 4:52

Jungle.

Lesley Logan 4:52

Lots of jungle, lots of really cool temples. Just, so cool.

Brad Crowell 4:56

Yeah. If you want to see something that is mind blowingly cool, go onto Google and search for northern Thailand, the White Temple.

Lesley Logan 5:05

It looks like it should have a movie around it with magic.

Brad Crowell 5:09

They have a White Temple, a Black Temple, Blue Temple, and I think there's a Red Temple, too. Anyway, it really is unbelievable. It's like this massive art piece. It's incredible. Like, jaw-droppingly cool. It's like, when I heard about it and I saw the photos, was like, we gotta go.

Lesley Logan 5:24

I understand that we are talking about a temple on this episode, but it's a different kind of temple. And we, like you said, look at it for the art in it and the history of it, and it's mind blowing.

Brad Crowell 5:34

Well, it was created by an artist.

Lesley Logan 5:35

Yeah, it's beautiful. So come to February's retreat, you won't see the White Temple, Black Temple or Blue Temple, but you will see the eighth wonder of the world.

Brad Crowell 5:42

You will see the eighth wonder of the world, which is another temple. It's actually the largest religious structure in the entire planet. How about that?

Lesley Logan 5:51

You wanna know why you shouldn't say no to Cambodia? Because when you come to Cambodia, you will learn about the temples, and you'll see some were Hindu, and then some were Buddhist, and then some were Hindu and some were Buddhist. Now they just celebrate all of it. So they have a lot of fucking holidays.

Brad Crowell 6:03

Yeah, that's a lot of holidays.

Lesley Logan 6:03

But talk about this compromise. They didn't go, oh, you all have to be Buddhist now. They are a Buddhist, Hindu.

Brad Crowell 6:08

Well, they did that a bunch of times. Yeah, they did that. They did war back and forth. And, different kings would change different things.

Lesley Logan 6:14

And then they just combined them all.

Brad Crowell 6:15

Yes. It's kind of a mash up now.

Lesley Logan 6:16

Yeah, okay, I am going to be.

Brad Crowell 6:18

Oh, go to crowsnestretreats.com to join us, crowsnestretreats.com. And then, now that we're back.

Lesley Logan 6:24

We're really diving in. My team is making sure I stay on the fucking track with this last deck.

Brad Crowell 6:32

We are.

Lesley Logan 6:32

We are making sure that I do not go two months past schedule for the fifth time I'm doing it already. Right now, on this moment, I should have already written 50 cards and 50 blogs.

Brad Crowell 6:43

Great.

Lesley Logan 6:43

That's the goal. By this, by the time this drops, maybe more. And there's 83 to go. 83 total. So the accessories deck is going to have the two by four, sandbag, toe corrector.

Brad Crowell 6:55

If you're wondering what an accessories deck is, this is Pilates flash cards we've been doing.

Lesley Logan 6:59

Yeah. Thanks for making it, you know, specific.

Brad Crowell 7:01

Yeah, we got the sixth deck in the series, the accessories deck. So it's all the other things. And here's the thing, I get so many questions about, should I, which Reformer should I buy that could fit under a couch? You guys, there are so many pieces of Pilates, apparati, apparatus, apparatuses that you that don't take much space and you can make it home. And I bet you can say all three of those, because I just watched a whole reel about a guy talking about how platypus has four different plurals. I'm pretty sure it's just apparatuses. (inaudible) A plural of the word apparatus can either be apparatus or apparatuses.

Lesley Logan 7:37

So it has two, I think apparatus. Anyways.

Brad Crowell 7:40

I liked apparati, though.

Lesley Logan 7:41

I know apparati, it's like a, I don't know it's a cacti, at any rate, you guys, my goal is that more than half of this deck is hand-makeable.

Brad Crowell 7:50

Hand-makeable. You mean the the equipment being used in the deck? Yep.

Lesley Logan 7:56

Thank you again. He's just coming in here to translate what I'm saying, guys. We were on vacation and so I'm clearly already there the time that we're recording this. Okay, Brad, do you have any Accelerators left of this year?

Brad Crowell 8:10

Yes, yes. Actually, if you are a fitness business owner and you are stuck with money income, you keep hitting the same marks every year. You're not growing the way that you need to grow to be able to actually pay yourself the money that you want to make, or put money aside because you want to retire one day, then you should come join me on this free webinar. It's called the Pilates Studio Growth Accelerator, and in there, Lesley and I have been coaching for years and years and years, and I'm going to be covering the three biggest secrets that we have learned, we have gleaned, we have come alongside these businesses to go through the trenches of, how do we make adjustments with them? Create that plan with them that they can go change their lives. And we're going to share those. I am going to share those three big secrets with you on this webinar. It is totally free, so you should absolutely join me. Go to prfit.biz/accelerator. That's profit without the O dot biz slash accelerator. And sign up.

Lesley Logan 9:07

And finally, we are, as you can hear, are clearly not staying in Vegas for very long. Because not only am I going to LA but then we're gonna come back and a few days later, after Thanksgiving, specifically, which my dad is now trying to get us snow camping on so we gotta figure that out.

Brad Crowell 9:20

We'll see.

Lesley Logan 9:21

He (inaudible) guys. So we can talk about it there. But we are going on tour, and you can buy tickets already. So.

Brad Crowell 9:26

Yeah, we're hitting the road again, y'all.

Lesley Logan 9:27

I'm being it till you see it on these tour tickets. They are out now.

Brad Crowell 9:30

I'm so excited. Oh yeah, we, the tickets opened up in beginning of October. So, you know, things have been, uh, cruising here, but we are coming to 23 different cities. We're going to be doing the South, I guess southern central I don't know we're going to take Route 40 across. So if you're anywhere near Route 40, when we hit Greensboro, North Carolina, we're to go all the way up to Maine and then down to Miami, and then back through Texas, hitting Phoenix, all the way back home. So if any of that sounds anywhere remotely close to where you're going to be for the holidays, or any time of December, or if you live near there, come hang out with us.

Lesley Logan 10:00

It is so much fun.

Brad Crowell 10:01

It's a blast. It's amazing.

Lesley Logan 10:03

It's so much fun. Balanced Body is sponsoring us again. We'll have Contrology equipment for you to try. There's prizes, lots of prizes. So it's gonna be really, really grand.

Brad Crowell 10:12

Lots of swag. Plus, if you're a teacher, you can get CECs on the workshops. So, anyways.

Lesley Logan 10:12

And the workshops are for every level. You don't have to be a teacher.

Brad Crowell 10:14

You don't have to be a teacher but if you need that stuff we're working that it in.

Lesley Logan 10:22

I've just created a new workshop, I've created a new workshop for this tour. And the working title is rolling with the mat homies. So mat is in parentheses because it's all about the transitions, and I think it might be too cute, and so I told Meredith to fix it. (inaudible) Well, I really like it. It's a working title.

Brad Crowell 10:39

It is a working title. Well anyway, go to opc.me/tour opc.me/tour and join us while we are on the road. We really do want to hang and also introduce our pups to you. They love meeting you, too. So before we actually dive in here, I swear we are going to talk about Tia Levings and we are going to talk about.

Lesley Logan 11:00

(inaudible) But we have a question.

Brad Crowell 11:01

Well, she said a, she said a word that I thought was really intriguing. She said she escaped. Okay, so if that is something that is intriguing to you, stick around. We're going to talk about her. But first we got this audience question. So Donna Lombardo on IG asked, Hey, I just ordered a workshop from OPC, which is onlinepilatesclasses.com and I would like to do the teaser, but I'm having a hard time finding this the correct place on my sitz bones to do the teaser. Where should I start?

Lesley Logan 11:28

Yeah, so, Donna, you should really focus on your rolling like a ball, because the teaser is the same position on the sitz bones. It's actually behind the sitz bones as you're rolling like a ball. And in fact, you can roll like a ball and land in a teaser. And if you can't, if you lose your legs, or you fall back, or it just looks like (inaudible), is what Jake Bryant would say, (inaudible). So it looks like that.

Brad Crowell 11:51

It is what he used to say.

Lesley Logan 11:51

He used to say that a lot of times to me. Then you're in the wrong spot, and also you're not ready for it yet. So rolling like a ball is your friend. Double Leg Stretch is your friend because it's going to help you learn how to reach your arms and legs away from your center. And I also would recommend your single leg kick and double leg kick on the mat, because it's going to stretch your hip flexors out and create more strength in your hamstrings and your butt. Basically, the rest of the mat is going to be your friend. And anything that seems harder than teaser, or as hard as teaser, you're just going to pull out, so if you have the flashcard deck, you'll just pull out all the ones that look like a teaser and are towards the end. Pull them out you're not ready for them yet. And then also, you better love your roll up. And if your legs are coming up in your roll up or you come up like a vampire.

Brad Crowell 12:36

Your roll up is critical.

Lesley Logan 12:38

And if you're an OPC member, then you can actually show me what your version of the teaser is, and I can and the other teachers can provide some support around how close you are, how far away you are. Sometimes we're just talking about different exercises altogether. So maybe this is not even what you're asking for. It's the best way for us to give personalized and tailored feedback, because I can't give you more than this without seeing you, and so it's general, but if I saw you and I could see, oh, the reason why you can't find this by your sitz bones is because your lower back is tight. That's a whole different thing, versus oh, your core is weak, right? Or it's both. Anyways, so go to (inaudible) opc.me/40, opc.me/40 will get you 40 days of OPC for $40 and during that time, you can submit a video of you doing the teaser.

Brad Crowell 13:24

Yeah, come join us.

Lesley Logan 13:25

Send your questions in I love answering them. We want, doesn't have to be Pilates questions or business questions. They can be life questions (inaudible and I have great advice.

Brad Crowell 13:34

Yeah, we do. That's true. Just text us at 310-905-5534, or hit us up on the Instagram or leave a YouTube comment or whatever. You know, just reach out. We will pretty much get it all. Yeah. So great question. Donna, thanks for asking that. Stick around. We are gonna dig into Tia Levings and how she escaped from Christian fundamentalism when we get back.

Brad Crowell 13:58

Okay, welcome back. Now, let's talk about Tia Levings. Tia Levings is a New York Times bestselling author of A Well-Trained Wife. It is her memoir of escaping from Christian patriarchy and fundamentalism. TiA is dedicated to shedding light on the impacts of religious fundamentalism and helping others break free from it and its political agenda through her social media platform and her books, she's actually writing another book right now on how she, once she escaped, how did she change? Because it took her 10 years.

Lesley Logan 14:30

I know, and I think it's so good for the people who've like, it's a special book for people who've gone through that.

Brad Crowell 14:36

Yeah, it took her 10 years to be able to even share her story. Like, it was fascinating. She said that she.

Lesley Logan 14:41

Tried to write it in different ways.

Brad Crowell 14:42

Yeah, she wrote it as a novel first, and then she wrote it under a different name, and she said it was all wrong. And then finally, through many years of therapy and life and raising kids and stuff, she was like, I gotta tell it as me.

Lesley Logan 14:53

I don't remember if it was in our interview, but I listened to her on an interview where she said she has healed so much from it. When she did her audio of her own book, she was able to do it. It did not affect her in that way. But the people in the sound booth were hearing it for the first time, and they were in tears, because they, it's it's dark, it's really intense, you guys.

Brad Crowell 15:14

I mean, why don't you give us just a little bit of a synopsis of what this book is, A Well-Trained Wife and like, what her background is here, because I think that will be impactful.

Lesley Logan 15:23

Her parents were not super religious. And I wanted to say it before I get into this, somebody is gonna say not all Christians, just like someone post something like, not all men, guess what? Then stand the fuck up and say, hey, I'm not like that, and that's wrong. You gotta call this stuff out, otherwise you get lumped into it. So I'm just going to say that, because you're correct. It's not all Christians. This is a special type of it. However.

Brad Crowell 15:45

She mentioned that, in fact, on the interview, and she said, yeah, story of my life, that it's not all Christians, but somehow I was involved in this (inaudible) fundamentals.

Lesley Logan 15:55

She was also involved in multiple churches. So here's the other thing. So she wasn't raised in a church in her early childhood. But they moved to Florida, and her parents joined a church, and one of those big mega churches, because it was like something to make friends. I know a lot of my friends were like, oh, I think I'm gonna go to church. My kids have this moral upbringing. The problem is, when she went there, the way that she interpreted the rapture is like she was going to be left behind. And so she had this, we talked about this with her sister, where she was in her life, and the way that she was born into this world, she took it as truly real, and she had this such a fear that she was going to be left behind and someone was going to die, and all these things. And so she was having stomach ache, but she just kept forcing herself to go. And then also all of her friends were like, oh, you shouldn't date. It's such, it's gonna break your heart. And by the way, my parents were never this strict, but they definitely dabbled in like, oh, there's some, really, some Christian churches. They pick the husbands for them. And I'm like, that's an arranged marriage. That's not okay with me. But this happens more than you think. So anyways, she marries a man who is not awesome and but she is marrying a Christian man, and she's doing the thing that she's supposed to do because a church told her to her job is to make babies.

Brad Crowell 17:09

And he's very controlling.

Lesley Logan 17:10

And he's very controlling, and he's very abusive. And when she talks about the abuse she has, it is when they go from different church to different church that abuse turns into wife spanking. They literally call it that. It is, so it's basically a different word for abuse. You're abusing your wife. And as they switch from church to church, they go into a Calvinist Church, which is super dark, and they believe the kids are born with sin. And so anyways, there is a time when another wife, kind of like, breaks the fourth wall and is like, do not go off the grid because they were about to switch churches and go or move towns, which would mean they would go to a different church with the same (inaudible).

Brad Crowell 17:45

This is after she was married, right? So she's married, she's in this really bad relationship, and the guys like, we're moving off the grid. We're getting out of here.

Lesley Logan 17:52

Yeah. So so it slowly went that way after one church, the next church, and the more controlling the churches were, the more he actually did well. But she obviously was bearing the brunt of it. Her kids were bearing the brunt of it. There was abuse in the household, and you'll have to read the book to hear kind of why she left, and how she left, but she, but it is, I hope they make a movie about it, because it is truly empowering for those women that you know who are what people don't understand is coercive control and being abused doesn't happen overnight. It happens slowly, and there's a lot to lose because you're isolated, and the more isolated you are, the harder it is. And the other thing is, is that you start to then feel embarrassed, because multiple times, her parents are like, are you sure you want to do this? Are you sure you want to do this? And like, so

Brad Crowell 18:39

Then you can't go back or you feel like you can't go back. And like.

Lesley Logan 18:42

Yes, and she was afraid she'd lose her kids because she has no job, because the women in these religions do not have jobs, so they have no money, so they can't.

Brad Crowell 18:51

They have no agency.

Lesley Logan 18:52

They have no agency. You are correct.

Brad Crowell 18:53

They're like, often not educated intentionally. They are just taught to conform and control.

Lesley Logan 18:59

Yes and she went for help multiple times, and the church, the different churches that she went to, didn't help her, didn't help her. So I think if you are listeners, and you're having a hard time that we are using the word Christian, and you're like, that's not my, that's not what I know.

Brad Crowell 19:15

That's not what I know.

Lesley Logan 19:15

That's not what he knew.

Brad Crowell 19:17

I mean, I grew up, I grew up in a church, and my church was pretty conservative. It was like a very intellectual style church, and then I ended up going to a very, very conservative 1950-style Bible college, you know where you weren't allowed to hold hand on campus unless you were engaged. You know, it was some, it was some really, really crazy rules that didn't make any sense.

Lesley Logan 19:37

And that, that school is producing a lot of this, and.

Brad Crowell 19:43

I mean, especially, like a Trad wife thing, or you know, they used to jokingly call my school, the letters are LBC, like, like, Bible the bridal college. It was Bible college, but they used to call bridal college.

Lesley Logan 19:53

I went to a Christian university, and everyone said, my dad said do not go here for your MRS degree It's too expensive.

Brad Crowell 19:59

That's right.

Lesley Logan 19:59

That's what my dad said to me. So I was intentional and not dating and not getting married, but so many of my friends that was what they wanted, because that's what they had been raised with, and that's what they thought. And here's the thing, if that's what you want, there is nothing wrong with that. But where things get wrong is and what what she experiences when there's abuse, when you are affecting children negatively when you are in this control place and and then you are trying to then control those lives around you who do not live this way. That's where it goes wrong. Yeah? It's not like they're just on their plot of land living their purity life.

Brad Crowell 20:34

Yeah, I think that's actually the thing that's kind of insane. Is like Christianity, the way I experienced it, and the way that I grew up, it was like, of course, there's missionaries and we're spreading the Good News and all that kind of a thing. That's not what this you know, that's still part of it. But this is about control. I also about taking over.

Lesley Logan 20:51

I think Tia and I also talked about this. When I went to church, you didn't know how people voted in your church. No one talked about that. My high school church was pretty conservative. They didn't preach from the pulpit. It was very, obviously, there were certain topics that people knew how people were voting. But Brene Brown said in one of her books, might have been Rising Strong or something about leaders. She said in the 70s, 70% of people lived in a community that voted differently than them. And today, well today, 10 years ago, 10 years ago, 70% of people lived where they voted the same. And so now the problem is, is that now, because you live in an environment where everyone's voting, similarly, it's also very visible because of the internet, yes, your fear of being kicked out of the community is so real because you want to belong.

Brad Crowell 21:39

That's right.

Lesley Logan 21:39

And so that is kind of what (inaudible).

Brad Crowell 21:29

I mean we're a tribal, we're tribal species.

Lesley Logan 21:38

Of course. That's how being able to tell stories and work together is kind of why we got here. We probably should talk about her talking points.

Brad Crowell 21:49

I know. We've, we definitely went down a tangent there. I appreciate you.

Lesley Logan 21:53

I really hope you all read her book and if you want to listen to it on tape. It is a great listen. It is hard. I strongly encourage you if you are like this is not how I know church to be, then I also encourage you, because it's important to know what other people are going through, because you also need to understand, why are they voting that way? Yeah, why are they not scared about these things? Because that's how they're living, and they want us all to live like it. So I was, I think I asked her a question, and her response was, that's faith. And I was like, oh my God, so be it till you see it is faith, guys. And one of the things that like blew my mind when I read her book is that you could be it till you see it in a way that affects you. But I had this in relation today.

Brad Crowell 22:31

I need you to expound on that. Be it till you see it in a way that.

Lesley Logan 22:34

Is affecting you.

Brad Crowell 22:35

Negatively affects you. So, it is possible to do that be it till you see it in a way that negative (inaudible).

Lesley Logan 22:40

And here's, here's what I have percolated on census interview, and she said you're supposed to become what they want you to be. So it's not being until you see it. It's being it till they see it in you, until you're doing what they want. So it's really not, it's still not a true be it because you are conforming to what they want and you're being it till they see it. That's what it really is. You're doing all the things to get their approval, to stay in the community, or to not get beat by the husband, or be terrible to get kicked out. She even talks about this time when she found this internet group, and then she almost got kicked out of that internet group because they were kind of like talking about things that were like, not super purity, whatever their religion was at the time. So anyways, faith is how these things happen. You're having faith.

Brad Crowell 23:25

And I think we need to clarify that.

Lesley Logan 23:27

Well, why don't you?

Brad Crowell 23:28

Okay, so faith is the idea that you can become this thing, right? That this thing can happen for you down the road. What she's talking about there is that when you have a religious formula that promises rewards, like prosperity or love or blessings or happiness, if you do x, y and z, then why would you not want to do x, y and z? Because you want to stay in the community. Your family is there, your friends are there. And so of course, that's the entire goal is then okay, if I do this, then these other things will happen, and that will be this high level reward of prosperity and love. I mean, there's a whole new offshoot of Christianity that is literally, like, all they talk about is making money.

Lesley Logan 24:12

Oh yeah.

Brad Crowell 24:12

Yeah. It's crazy. Minion Jesus. It's like a whole fucking thing. It's fascinating.

Lesley Logan 24:16

It's very, I know it's a bit much, it's a derogatory name, so please don't get mad at me. But the Moonies have broken up, and the second son of the Moonies guy, their whole Christianity is built on guns and the Second Amendment, and so he's the Third Coming of Christ, or something like that. There is a lot of different ones out there guys. But she said fear of rejection and punishment drove her to fake it till I make it, to avoid hell, to void rejection and unhappiness, because that's what they promised her. They promised her, if you follow all these things, you will feel this way.

Brad Crowell 24:46

Yeah, no, well, not that you'll feel this way, but that you will avoid these things. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 24:50

Some of us can think back into our youth to kind of go, oh man. When I was in my 20s, I was such a free spirit. I was such these things to, like, kind of find themselves again, right? She can't do that. She can't look at her 20-something self or her 30-something (inaudible) right because they, she actually had to grieve those parts of her past that is gone. She doesn't get those back. She doesn't get those years back. She can't change that. So she had to have a new vision for what is, who's Tia at 50? And that you guys, is being until you see it. So if you are someone like Tia who has just such a childhood or such an event in your early youth, like adulthood, that you can't really use that time to figure out what did make me happy? Like, I hate the question, like, oh, were you super like this when you were a kid and that's why you're a Pilates instructor? No, I wasn't. She can't, being it until you see it is like, what, who do I want to be? What could I be? And you have to see some of those things to believe those things. So she was not going to let them get her present or her future, because that was the only thing she had control over. And I find that so cool, whether or not you had her life experience right now, you guys, you have the control over the present and the future, like the choices you're gonna make. Obviously don't have control of, like, what could happen in those things. But like, what time you want to wake up? Where do you want to go? What do you want to wear? What do you want to listen to? What are you putting in your ears? You have control of those things. So that is part of being it, till you see it.

Brad Crowell 26:10

Here's what I really loved, and this is where I'm going to go a little bit into politics y'all, which we don't do very often here on this pod. I'm sure you understand. If you're a longtime listener. You know us. You know where we stand. I want to talk about this here because this is a very scary concept. Okay, what you two were talking about was, what if our convicted felon of a candidate for the Republican Party, what if he gets into office? That's going to be really scary. But what if he doesn't get into office? What is actually going to happen? It's not like this movement is just gonna go away. So how are they doing that? And what she did is she broke down how there's a bunch of conservative organizations who effectively banded together. There's over 100 of them, right? And they created this program called Project 2025, and before that, they were very connected to Jerry Falwell. And before Jerry Falwell came out and said, hey, we should be supporting Trump. The Republican Party was not interested in supporting Trump. They were like, we're not with this guy. He's a crazy person. But because of the religious fundamental movements that are really underpinning a lot of the decision making now in the Republican Party, they said, no, no, we got to get behind Trump. And what they did is they basically created someone who could be swapped out. So if it's not Trump, it could be somebody else. It doesn't matter.

Lesley Logan 27:28

Oh, (inaudible) and I got to show you a reel I just saw. I'll show it to you later.

Brad Crowell 27:31

Yeah. So the point is that if he fails to be elected president, it doesn't mean that this movement goes away, okay, and so you two were then talking about, what do we do, and how do you move forward with this? And Tia said she chooses light, she chooses life, she chooses energy, she chooses progress. So she was specifically talking about voting, and she said the most important thing is that we have the right to vote and we can cast the vote. She was not in a place where she could vote.

Lesley Logan 27:59

No. She was in this country and was not allowed to vote.

Brad Crowell 28:01

She was not allowed to vote. Okay? And so I'm today, right now, I'm wearing a hat that's, it says VSA on it, VSA, which stands for Vote Save America, and it's an organization that we would encourage you to go check out. They help you volunteer, donate, or even run for office, or just understand, are you even a registered voter? They can help you through all those things, and they're an amazing organization. Vote save America. Go check that out. But she said, if there's someone who is going to be putting policy in place that could restrict my vote, I'm voting for the other guy because the other guy is going to be helping me be able to vote.

Lesley Logan 28:34

And I think that's really important, no matter how you label yourself in politics in this particular upcoming election, and maybe the next one too. We need to be voting for the people who have the love and the light and the energy to provide more rights for people, not take them away. That's the easiest way to distill who am I voting for in every single whether it's a judge or a local school board or whatever it's like, who is wanting to support as many lives as possible, and who wants to support less people?

Brad Crowell 29:05

She said something else, which I thought was really interesting. She's like we as a society have moved through and past puritanical times, but that's what she was basically living under, right? Here in the United States today, right now. And the point is, this is still there, and the Christian Nationalist Movement that is, the fundamentalist movements that she was part of, could be lumped under that movement. They're still making decisions, and they're still trying to expand and control, right? So when we are voting, we need to be voting people into power who are going to be protecting people, right? Not people into power who are going to be taking rights away for people.

Lesley Logan 29:43

And voting for people who we might not agree with on everything but we can argue with because we have the right to that is a right that is not shared in most countries, to be able to yell at your politician and go, you're not doing what I want. That is a very special thing we have here. So Jane Bona says you vote for the person you can argue with.

Brad Crowell 29:59

I was just thinking about her.

Lesley Logan 30:00

Yeah. So in Shakespearean times, when they wrote those plays, the Puritans were really big in power, and they would control a theater, and certain plays would not be allowed on the stage, and no woman could write and no woman could act in them even though the characters were women, they had the men dressed as women, because it would have been too ridiculous outside of their religion. That's what it is. That's what's going on. You won't even have art. It doesn't exist. Anyways, we've got to get to the Be It Action Items.

Brad Crowell 30:27

Yeah. So she said I choose to go forward. And she expressed support for political ideologies and groups that protect progress, even if she doesn't agree with them entirely. Okay? So you know that is what we would put this in front of you and argue the same thing. I don't remember why or when it became this idea that we have to agree with our political candidates 100% of the time for us to vote for them? That is, that is like only a new thing. That was never the case, even 10 years ago.

Lesley Logan 30:57

My parents always bitched about whatever President was in office and they voted for him.

Brad Crowell 31:01

Right. Yeah, exactly. And somehow we have this idea that, like, oh, there's this one thing I don't agree with. Well, what about the other 99 things? Do you agree with those? So anyway, yeah, all right.

Lesley Logan 31:13

We'll, beat this in.

Brad Crowell 31:14

Yeah.

Lesley Logan 31:15

We're linking to everything. I'm sure we did it on the other episode on Project 2025, if you come at me and say he said he's not with that, I'm gonna tell you right now, he flew on the plane with him after he said that. He hung out with him after he said that, do not come at me with that, because it's called logic. And 200 people who were part of his office before were part of writing that.

Brad Crowell 31:34

So yeah, I mean, like a large part of his staff were the people who then went on to write project 2025 so of course, he's aware.

Lesley Logan 31:41

Let's get to some positive

Brad Crowell 31:42

All right. Let's move on. Let's move on. Stick around. We'll be right back. We're actually gonna dig into the Be It Action Items that we took away from Tia, where she had some incredible insight that's for each and every one of us. So we'll be right back.

Brad Crowell 31:54

All right. Welcome back. Finally. Let's talk about those, Be It Action Items. I'll get myself off my high horse here, and we'll talk about Tia Levings and the action items that she said during the interview last week or earliest week, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Tia Levings? She sai hey, spend time with yo self.

Lesley Logan 32:18

She went on a freaking slow cruise to Europe.

Brad Crowell 32:21

By herself.

Lesley Logan 32:22

Yeah, it takes like, six or eight weeks.

Brad Crowell 32:24

That's pretty crazy. I know that's kind of amazing.

Lesley Logan 32:27

I want to, do I want to do that? I don't. I love being by myself. Do I want to be by myself that much? I don't know, but I agree with this. I love when you go out. I'm like, I have all (inaudible). What am I gonna do? It's such a good way to, kind of, like, understand what you need and what's going on. I love it.

Brad Crowell 32:41

Yeah, she talked about just tuning out the noise, learning to sit in silence. I can tell you, I always find myself walking around listening to something. I'm always listening to something. It's very rare that I actually have just chill time. I'm always entertaining myself in some way. She pays attention to her nerves and bodily sensations, honoring them, even if she can't fully understand them or express them yet. So when you have a little bit of quiet time, that can be really powerful.

Lesley Logan 33:09

Yeah, I agree. And it's also kind of the only way to hear it, you gotta hear it, you know? All right, my biggest takeaway is kind of, I mean, like she'd spend time with yourself, and then she said, spend a lot of time envisioning. She doesn't believe you can become something without intention unless you can see it. For her, she needs to be able to see it using practice like vision boarding and journaling to the person she wants to become. So she's big on vision boarding. And she also has a win board, and I love that. You guys have to have two boards because you can put it over here. I'm like, oh, that is way too much fun. I think it's so cool.

Brad Crowell 33:41

I love the wins board because it allows you to remember, if you're in the moment of beating yourself up, which we all go through, you know, being able to turn around and see the wins board and be like, oh, yeah. But I, I did do that. And that happened, and this happened.

Lesley Logan 33:55

I mean, you guys, she practiced many times in the mirror being able to speak or smile like a normal person would, because she didn't spend a lot of time with people outside of her church. There's just different nuances to how life is.

Brad Crowell 34:09

She said she couldn't even be on the phone without stuttering the whole time. And she said being able to even do the interview that you two had is like a dramatic difference from where she was.

Lesley Logan 34:20

Yeah. And she's doing some great things. She's really worth following on Instagram. I highly recommend it. I really recommend this book. I recommend anyone who is doubtful that this stuff really exists, it's, it does, and so reading other people's stories kind of, to me, though, it's why I like books and I like travel. It allows you to see how other people are living, and one, recognize how much you do have. Two, you can learn a lot about what you want and don't want, and that is important. You know, we take things for granted.

Brad Crowell 34:48

I was literally just gonna say, I want you to know how much we appreciate you, yeah, being here with us on this pod, and we genuinely care about you, your well being and your future. We care about all of our future.

Lesley Logan 35:01

So if you disagree, if you disagree with some of us on some of these points, that's okay, because we still love you, because just like we don't have to agree with every 100% of the people we're voting for, we don't have to agree with everything that you are or say to still love you and still want to support you and your journey. Trust us. We've got family members who I'm a little bit like, hmm, we don't agree on these things, but I still love you and I still want the best for you, and we will constantly put out content here to support you and everything you want to be it until you see it. Thank you so much.

Brad Crowell 35:29

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 35:31

That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 36:14

It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 36:19

It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 36:23

Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 36:30

Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 36:34

Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy